Care Home Fees

4Musky

My Mum has been in a nursing home for a number of years. The debt now outweighs her assets. Her flat has a charge so is being currently sold.
My question is:
How much money can be left in my Mum's estate, that the care home or local authority cannot touch?
I have been given figures ranging from £23,000, £14,000 and Zero.
Nobody can give me a definitive answer.
I've tried a number of solicitors, Age UK and Citizen's Advice.
I'm at my wits to be honest!
I just want a simple concrete answer.

elsien

14250 is the lower capital limit, where her care is fully funded. 

There is a sliding scale between 14250 and 23250 where she pays a tariff amount towards her care. 23250 is the point at which she is fully self funding.



https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAC7qgyEqoH6NOc2cwOYOPeCLGGTPm&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5Iyspe7niAMVvZFQBh3czhklEAAYAiAAEgIlpvD_BwE

All  this presumes that her care falls under  the local authority and she is not fully health funded.

At the point, she is getting to the 23 K mark.m she needs to let the local authority know so that they can assess and step in with the funding when they need to.
However the local authority financial assessment presumes that if they are funding her all her income will go towards the fees leaving at £25 a week personal allowance. 

This is the point at which if someone is in a very expensive home and maybe discussions around moving some cheaper, unless it can be identified that it’s their best interest to stay where they are. Some care homes may also negotiate a lower rate at this point.

p00hsticks

4Musky said:

I just want a simple concrete answer.

Elsien has given a really good answer above, but as she says it will be dependent on how much the home she is currently in charges, and whether the local authority is prepared to meet the full cost of that - you / she may be given a choice of moving her to a cheaper home or of using some of her remaining savings to top up the cost so that she can stay where she is. 

elsien

Using her remaining savings to top up the cost is normally not allowed although there are exceptions. 

Someone else can agree to pay a voluntary third-party top up to make up the difference. It is voluntary, as local authorities have been known to suggest otherwise. It is obviously a big commitment, so shouldn’t be taken on lightly. 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/top-up-fees/

elsien

Also to add, in case you weren’t aware that attendance allowance is only for people who are self funding so if she’s claiming that you need to be aware of the point at which you must  inform DWP. 

4Musky

Thank you all for your guidance.

Sorry but in plain terms, how much money can be left in my Mum's estate, that the care home or local authority cannot touch?

Many thanks.

elsien

When she gets down to £14,250 capital. 

Her income will be taken into account regardless of savings. 

As  already stated, and I don’t know how to make it any clearer, between the 14250 and the 23250 she will keep some and pay some. It’s all on the first link. 

You need to tell the local authority when it gets down  23250 so they can start paying their bit and it will take longer to go down to the 14 K. 

Brie

£14250 is the cash amount she can keep. 

She may have other assets which are worth very little - furniture, china, a bit of jewelry.  Things that wouldn't fetch more than say £100 if sold.  Those could be distributed to family when the house is sold, assuming they are still in the house.  We often think our possessions are very valuable.  My MiL did and kept phoning book dealers to get them to come and look at her "collection of antique books".  A couple did show up and were sadly disappointed by an old copy of Mrs Beaton and some children's books from 1920ish.  My own mom has a lot of historically valuable paintings which we have been told might fetch at best £50 each.  There's also 12 place settings of hand painted Limoges china with all the serving bits.  Value is zero as no one wants that sort of thing any more. The council also would not be interested in things like that.  

Keep_pedalling

Once her assets get down to £23,250, she will only have to contribute from income. The complication is that assets between £14,250 and £23,250 are assumed to be earning income of £1 per week for each £250 over the lower £14,250 limit. If you could actually generate that sort if income from those assets then you could leave the full £23,250, but in practice what tends to happen is that that amount slowly falls over time so it is not possible to say how much she can leave as it very much depends on how long she lives.

The minimum should be £14,250 and maximum £23,250 but for most it will be a figure between those two values.

Pollycat

Your capital	What you'll have to pay
Over £23,250	You'll have to pay your own fees as a 'self-funder'.
Between £14,250 and £23,250	The council provides financial support and you pay a contribution from your income (such as pensions) plus a tariff income.
Under £14,250	The council provides financial support and you pay a contribution from your income – with no tariff income.

This extract from here:
Paying for Permanent Residential Care | Paying For a Care Home | Age UK
may help.
It goes on to explain 'tariff income'.

elsien said:

However the local authority financial assessment presumes that if they are funding her all her income will go towards the fees leaving at £25 a week personal allowance. 

The same link says this:

However you must be left a Personal Expenses Allowance of at least £30.15 per week. 

I'm surprised that you say this:

4Musky said:
My Mum has been in a nursing home for a number of years. The debt now outweighs her assets. Her flat has a charge so is being currently sold.
My question is:
How much money can be left in my Mum's estate, that the care home or local authority cannot touch?
I have been given figures ranging from £23,000, £14,000 and Zero.
Nobody can give me a definitive answer.
I've tried a number of solicitors, Age UK and Citizen's Advice.
I'm at my wits to be honest!
I just want a simple concrete answer.

as the links provided are from Age UK.

elsien

Must have gone up then since I was last working in a care home.