Package Flight Cancelled. No refund on hotel. Help!

Silvergirlracer19

Hi

Looking for some advice on possible next steps or confirmation I should give up and suck it up!

I booked a flight and hotel package via Expedia.

Both items were booked at exactly the same time, I paid by credit card for the total cost and received documentation confirming  the word ‘package’ as well as an ATOL certificate.

The trip was for a total of 3 nights and with flight timings meant 3 full days at the destination.

Shortly after booking I received confirmation that the departure flight time had changed from 6:00 am  to 4:45 pm. This was still 3 nights but essentially reduced full days at destination to 2. Not ideal, but workable.

I then received another notification advising that the flight booked had been cancelled and rescheduled for the next day at 4:45 pm. So now, over 24 hours after our original booking time which equated to a 2 night stay with only one day for sight seeing etc.

I contacted Expedia and was advised that as it was considered a major change I could receive a refund for the flight, but not the hotel.

My argument is that this was booked as package holiday and as the change and cancellation of the flight was beyond my control, I should receive a full refund.  I mean, how are we supposed to stay at a hotel with no flight to get to it 🤷??‍!️

I raised an official complaint confirming that the hotel was booked as part of a package but after a trail of back and forth (and stupid requests from them for evidence of cancellation 🤦‍♀️) they stopped responding.

So I contacted my credit card company and raised a chargeback claim.

Within 12 hours the Expedia Disputes department in America got in touch asking me to ‘fax’  (Fax???!!). to them confirmation that I want to keep the hotel. I politely declined and explained again that I don’t want to keep the hotel booking and I am just seeking refund of the  cost as I booked in good faith as a package deal, an element of which was cancelled due to circumstances beyond my control.

End result was a letter received from my credit card company enclosing evidence from Expedia which states the hotel as being ‘non refundable’  and declining chargeback claim.

The fact that it was a package deal seems to be passing everybody by trumped by words ‘non refundable’ .

Had I cancelled the trip (or booked flight and hotel separately)  I would totally understand but the flight change was beyond my control so it feels unjust that I am out of pocket for the hotel.

I have checked and Expedia is not an ABTA member. Do I have anywhere else to go or is it a case of ‘Suck It Up Buttercup?’. Its over £400 so not a small amount, but I wouldn’t want to go down a legal route that means spending more than that on claims/solicitors.

Any help and guidance much appreciated.

 

 

 

 

HillStreetBlues

Silvergirlracer19 said:

Hi

Looking for some advice on possible next steps or confirmation I should give up and suck it up!

I booked a flight and hotel package via Expedia.

Both items were booked at exactly the same time, I paid by credit card for the total cost and received documentation confirming  the word ‘package’ as well as an ATOL certificate.

The trip was for a total of 3 nights and with flight timings meant 3 full days at the destination.

Shortly after booking I received confirmation that the departure flight time had changed from 6:00 am  to 4:45 pm. This was still 3 nights but essentially reduced full days at destination to 2. Not ideal, but workable.

I then received another notification advising that the flight booked had been cancelled and rescheduled for the next day at 4:45 pm. So now, over 24 hours after our original booking time which equated to a 2 night stay with only one day for sight seeing etc.

I contacted Expedia and was advised that as it was considered a major change I could receive a refund for the flight, but not the hotel.

My argument is that this was booked as package holiday and as the change and cancellation of the flight was beyond my control, I should receive a full refund.  I mean, how are we supposed to stay at a hotel with no flight to get to it 🤷??‍!️

I raised an official complaint confirming that the hotel was booked as part of a package but after a trail of back and forth (and stupid requests from them for evidence of cancellation 🤦‍♀️) they stopped responding.

So I contacted my credit card company and raised a chargeback claim.

Within 12 hours the Expedia Disputes department in America got in touch asking me to ‘fax’  (Fax???!!). to them confirmation that I want to keep the hotel. I politely declined and explained again that I don’t want to keep the hotel booking and I am just seeking refund of the  cost as I booked in good faith as a package deal, an element of which was cancelled due to circumstances beyond my control.

End result was a letter received from my credit card company enclosing evidence from Expedia which states the hotel as being ‘non refundable’  and declining chargeback claim.

The fact that it was a package deal seems to be passing everybody by trumped by words ‘non refundable’ .

Had I cancelled the trip (or booked flight and hotel separately)  I would totally understand but the flight change was beyond my control so it feels unjust that I am out of pocket for the hotel.

I have checked and Expedia is not an ABTA member. Do I have anywhere else to go or is it a case of ‘Suck It Up Buttercup?’. Its over £400 so not a small amount, but I wouldn’t want to go down a legal route that means spending more than that on claims/solicitors.

Any help and guidance much appreciated.

Go back to credit card company and state you want to raise a Section 75 claim.
You could even complain about the Chargeback being reversed.
You didn't buy a hotel & flight you bought a package the "‘non refundable" doesn't apply (it would have if you had purchased them separately).

DullGreyGuy

Silvergirlracer19 said:

I then received another notification advising that the flight booked had been cancelled and rescheduled for the next day at 4:45 pm. So now, over 24 hours after our original booking time which equated to a 2 night stay with only one day for sight seeing etc.

It cannot be cancelled and rescheduled... it was either cancelled and you were rebooked on a later flight or it was rescheduled. You may think it's pedantry but these things make differences when it comes to regulations. 

Did you have travel insurance? Most policies cover the cost of cancellation if your departure is changed to more than X hours after the original

mark_cycling00

Are you 100% sure you're being contacted by Expedia? 

There's been some scamming activity recently where hotel computers have had viruses sent to them and this has captured customer data which scammers use to try and get you to rebook - they just take your cash and run 

HillStreetBlues

DullGreyGuy said:

It cannot be cancelled and rescheduled... it was either cancelled and you were rebooked on a later flight or it was rescheduled. You may think it's pedantry but these things make differences when it comes to regulations. 

In OP's case I don't think it matters
ABTA states "Generally, a change of more than 12 hours on a 14-night holiday is considered a significant change."   that would be about 1/28 of the holiday.
With the OP the change would be over 34 hours on a 3 day holiday  that's 17/36 not far off a half.

https://www.abta.com/help-and-complaints/frequently-asked-questions/my-flights-been-cancelled-what-will-happen-rest-my

Package holidays

If your flight is cancelled and you’ve booked a package holiday, you have the same rights as any other passenger to rerouting, refunds and potentially compensation from the airline but you also have additional rights regarding the rest of your holiday. 

Normally your travel company will contact you in advance to re-arrange your flights, however, if you’re at the airport when the flight is cancelled you should contact your travel company to talk through your options.

If your flight can’t be rearranged and your holiday has to be cancelled, or new arrangements are made that result in a significant change to your holiday, then the travel company must offer an alternative holiday if they can, or a refund of the full package price, not just the flight part. Generally, a change of more than 12 hours on a 14-night holiday is considered a significant change.

Silvergirlracer19

Thank you.

@DullGreyGuy. The notification I received was 
'Your flight has been changed. X have offered an alternative'
I checked the flight schedules and my original flight was no longer showing  as being available to book hence me using the word cancelled.
The alternative offered was more than 24 hours later. Substantial change.
Hope this clarifies.

@mark_cycling00 No concerns at all that I am being scammed. Definately booked with Expedia and was corresponding with Expedia. 👍 

Silvergirlracer19

@HillStreetBlues Your ABTA extract makes perfect and logical sense to me and was the basis of my complaint.

Unfortunately, Expedia are not ABTA members so I dont think i can go to them to for help 😞

HillStreetBlues

You now need to go directly to the regs.
The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018

Alteration of other package travel contract terms

11.—(1) The provisions of this regulation are implied as a term in every package travel contract.

(2) The organiser must not unilaterally change the terms of a package travel contract before the start of the package, other than the price in accordance with regulation 10, unless—

(a)the contract allows the organiser to make such changes;

(b)the change is insignificant; and

(c)the organiser informs the traveller of the change in a clear, comprehensible and prominent manner on a durable medium.

(3) Paragraphs (4) to (11) apply where, before the start of the package, the organiser—

(a)is constrained by circumstances beyond the control of the organiser to alter significantly any of the main characteristics of the travel services specified in paragraphs 1 to 10 of Schedule 1;

(b)cannot fulfil the special requirements specified in paragraph 1 of Schedule 5; or

(c)proposes to increase the price of the package by more than 8% in accordance with regulation 10(4).

(4) The organiser must, without undue delay, inform the traveller in a clear, comprehensible and prominent manner on a durable medium, of—

(a)the proposed changes referred to in paragraph (3) and, where appropriate, in accordance with paragraph (7), their impact on the price of the package;

(b)a reasonable period within which the traveller must inform the organiser of the decision pursuant to paragraph (5);

(c)the consequences of the traveller’s failure to respond within the period referred to in sub-paragraph (b); and

(d)any substitute package, of an equivalent or higher quality, if possible, offered to the traveller and its price.

(5) The traveller may, within a reasonable period specified by the organiser—

(a)accept the proposed changes; or

(b)terminate the contract without paying a termination fee.

(6) Where the traveller terminates the contract pursuant to paragraph (5)(b), the traveller may accept a substitute package, where this is offered by the organiser.

(7) Where—

(a)the changes to the package travel contract referred to in paragraph (3), or

(b)the substitute package referred to in paragraph (6),

result in a package of lower quality or cost, the traveller is entitled to an appropriate price reduction.

(8) Where—

(a)the traveller terminates the contract pursuant to paragraph (5)(b), and

(b)the traveller does not accept a substitute package,

the organiser must refund all payments made by or on behalf of the traveller without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days after the contract is terminated.

(9) Where paragraph (8) applies, regulation 16(2) to (10) applies.

(10) Where the traveller does not confirm, within the period specified in paragraph (5), whether the traveller wishes to—

(a)accept the proposed change, or

(b)terminate the contract,

in accordance with that paragraph, the organiser must notify the traveller, a second time, of the matters in sub-paragraphs (a) to (d) of paragraph (4).

(11) If, having been notified under paragraph (10), the traveller fails to respond, the organiser may terminate the contract and refund all payments made by or on behalf of the traveller without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days after the contract is terminated.

What it boils down to is was the change significant, I don't think anyone would successfully argue it it's wasn't.
The regs apply to anyone selling a package holiday in the UK so do apply to Expedia, they override any T&Cs such as something isn't refundable.
You should have received a full refund within 14 days.

As your credit card company is equally liable, go back to them telling them  you want a file a Section 75 (this is also a legal right). Explain ubder English law the The Package Travel and Linked Travel Arrangements Regulations 2018 entitles you to a full refund and Expedia, are refusing the full refund.

You will get full refund as that's what you are entitled too, even if it takes a complaint to the financial ombudsman

Westin

^

I am in agreement with @HillStreetBlues (great TV BTW).

Given that the ATOL certificate indicates that you have a package, the PTR’s and your summary of flight changes would suggest to me that Expedia should be treating this as a package.  The change in flights for a short break trip should allow you to obtain a full refund on the hotel and accommodation.

I suspect that the Expedia customer services agent (likely based overseas) or their US finance people have no knowledge of the Package Travel Regulations. 

Follow HillStreetBlue’s direction on this.

HillStreetBlues

Thinking about it I think a better way to go about it is as in my first post raise a complaint and make sure it's registered as a complaint.
Chargebacks have to follow certain rules as Westin has stated Expedia might not know (could be wilful ignorance)  but the CC will be a UK company so should know the package holiday regs. They should not have accepted  Expedia's defence as it's irreverent.
The second complaint will be (as it looks like) they didn't then raise a S75 as the FO would expect.
State that you want a refund of all monies paid and compensation for their errors.

(I've personal experience with a Chargeback not being processed correctly (Aqua), would have to check but got about £100 awarded by FO as compo.)

Silvergirlracer19

@HillStreetBlues Thank you!
I did raise a formal complaint with Expedia, quoting UK package regs but that was ignored.

I explained briefly to CC what the problem was but that was through on line chat so limited opportunity to spell it out and they never came back to ask me for further info - they just took what Expedia said.

I will go back today and raise a complaint about the charge back. 

Thanks again for your help and insight. I go with confidence! Will let you know how it pans out.