Public Health Funeral and Estate Question......

gt568

Bit of a complicated one here, hoping someone can help....

My wife is estranged from her mother, but she keeps getting contacted by the care home as the next of kin..... It looks like the MiL may die soon.....

She has been in a care home for circa 3 years....recently my wife recieved a letter from the OPG saying they wanted to liquidate MiLs house and the unexecuted estate of MiLs father, my wife didn't object as she didn't want to be involved in that.

So I guess my questions are......

1. If my wife refuses to get involved I assume there will be a Public Health Funeral and this would be paid for out of the estate?

2. Who would liquidate the estates if my wife refuses to do it in order to pay for the PHF? 

3. If the OPG paperwork goes through before she dies then I assume the council will liquidate the estate?

Thanks all.

elsien

If she lacks capacity, then the application to the OPG is likely to be for a financial deputy ship. In which case they would deal with anything that needs doing. It won’t be a public health funeral because that’s for people with no money. The deputy will arrange a very simple funeral.

Next of kin has no legal meaning under the Mental Capacity Act. Your wife can tell the care and that she doesn’t wish to be contacted at all. Or she can ask to be informed when her mother does pass, if she prefers, while making it clear that she is not going to do anything, not registering the death, not sort out the bills not sorted out the belongings, nothing.

Your wife has no obligations at all other than those that she wishes to have. The care home will have had other residents with no family so they should know what to do. They just find it easier to try to pass it on to whatever blood relative they can find. 

gt568

Thats right, its financial deputyship - I think they want to realise the assets is the deceaseds estate and MiLs house as I suspect there is a massive care home bill.....which I don't think the estate will cover.

So if the paperwork has gone through then the deputy will sort everything, funeral, liquidation of the MiLs estate etc?

If she dies before the paperwork what happens then?

elsien

She can still walk away. Whether there’s anything in place or not, she still has no obligations, although she may need to be firm in reiterating that to people. 

Local authorities have bereavement services which deal with these scenarios. There will be someone. It’s not her job to find them. 

My job involves working with people who lack capacity who have no family. I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve been asked to register deaths or organise funerals for people I haven’t seen for months or years just because my name is on the paperwork somewhere, from the dim and distant past.
She will get calls from the care home. She can still say she is not going to get involved at all. 

gt568

Yes I get it's not her job, but she wants to understand the process as she's racked by guilt dispite being the abused party and understanding it will help her come to terms, hence why we are trying to understand everything.

Linton

Ias  a non lawyer understand the position to be.....
"Next of kin" has no legal status. The authorities (police, hospitals etc) use it purely as the person to contact in a family.  Your wife as next of kin has no legal authority to approve or disapprove  of anything nor any duty to do anything regarding her mother.

If someone dies, in the last resort the local authority will pay for a basic funeral.  If there is no-one appropriate  prepared to administer the estate the courts can be asked to appoint someone, perhaps a qualiffied and approved local solicitor..  I dont think the local authority has the power to do anything here apart from asking the courts to act.  It would be up to the appointed independent administrator to ensure that the estates assets are used to pay any debts etc.

elsien

The process is that the care home can call a funeral director. There are a number of people who can register the death.

• a relative by blood, marriage or adoption of the person who has died
• the partner of the person who has died
• a person who is not related but was present at the death
• a person who is arranging the funeral
• an occupier of a building such as a care or nursing home manager
• the personal representative of the deceased i.e. someone appointed by them or their family such as a Solicitor

Then, if there was no one else the local authority bereavement services will kick in and take things forwards. That may be arranging a basic funeral, and seeing if any money can be found to put towards it. It may be looking for other relatives amongst her paperwork.

Funeral costs, as with anyone other person are the priority and would be paid for from the estate before any other bills are paid. 
I will just reiterate that there are a lot of people in care homes who passed away with no family. And their estate gets sorted. It’s not an unusual scenario.

Flugelhorn

gt568 said:

Yes I get it's not her job, but she wants to understand the process as she's racked by guilt dispite being the abused party and understanding it will help her come to terms, hence why we are trying to understand everything.

Totally understandable. the care home will call her, just because that is what they always do and assume (rightly or wrongly) that the nearest and dearest want to be involved - many don't and that is no problem, just hard to get it through to the care home and others.    I had this with multiple phone calls assuming I would be dashing there or the hospital at a moments notice. 

My understanding in this case is that the whole thing would be handled by the bereavement / legal dept of the council who will be owed money from the estates. 

elsien

Her other option, if she really doesn’t want to know anything, is to tell the care home to remove her name from their records. 

Cairnpapple

There is a council funeral officer who wrote a book called 'Ashes to Admin' under the pseudonym of Evie King. She's done quite a lot of interviews explaining the process of council funerals. She had examples in her book of where there was family but the family didn't want to be involved. 

Keep_pedalling

Deputyship ends once your MIL dies. If the house sale is not completed before then the whole process will come to a grinding halt as responsibility for her estate will then fall on her estates executors / administrators as probate will be need to complete the house sale, or if it has actually been sold to release any remaining proceeds for distribution.

If she has made a will then that will have appointed the executors, if she has died intestate then it would normally be the major beneficiaries of her estate who would take on the administration, which in this case would be your wife and or siblings if she has any. If none of her children or appointed executors are willing to take take it on then it is going to be down to her creditors who will want to recover the money owed which in this case will be the LA.

Any funeral costs will be recovered from the estate before any other creditors are paid.