Parking Ticket - Notice to Keeper

Darknight2

I received a parking ticket / PCN for overstaying at the car park by mere seconds.

I was using my company car so I received the email from my fleet manager to pay the fine. I have authority to speak on their behalf for the appeal process.

I was picking up my someone and they took a bit too long to get in the car before I can set off. The photo evidence shows me going into the car park and leaving seconds above the 10 minute mark (Grace period?). Not sure If I can appeal this, I haven't tried yet as I have stumbled across this thread and wanted some guidance first. Not sure If I can use Plan A from the newbies as this is a company car?

Darknight2

Also the Notice to Keeper arrived after the 15 days period so not sure if this annuls it? 

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

Which PPC?

Plan A is always the best option, but do not reveal the driver's identity under any circumstances.

If Plan A fails, appeal as per the relevant edna basher letter you will find in the NEWBIES. There are three to choose from, so post the one you have decided on using before you submit it.

The NTK arriving more than 15 days after the date of the alleged event annuls nothing, but it does mean the PPC can't hold the keeper liable.

Darknight2

Fruitcake said:

It is not a fine.

Which PPC?

Plan A is always the best option, but do not reveal the driver's identity under any circumstances.

If Plan A fails, appeal as per the relevant edna basher letter you will find in the NEWBIES. There are three to choose from, so post the one you have decided on using before you submit it.

The NTK arriving more than 15 days after the date of the alleged event annuls nothing, but it does mean the PPC can't hold the keeper liable.

Here is the letter received from the PPC.
Correction, the NTK was actually received on the 29th day after the incident. I believe this fails to comply with section 8 (5)?

Also I will be using this letter but not sure if the sections mentioned are relevant to my case if you can help?



"RE: PCN No. xxxxxxxxx

I would like you to know I (as the registered keeper of the vehicle) am not ignoring your letter suggesting my liability for a charge related to a parking infraction that you state took place on xx September 2015 at the Ferry Road Retail Park, Cardiff.

I wish to outline my current position in reference to your PCN.

Keepers Liability and POFA 2012
As stated in paragraph 13(2) of POFA 2012...

"The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given—

(a) A statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;

(b) A copy of the hire agreement; and

(c) A copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

AND

Paragraph 14(2) and (3) of POFA 2012:

(2) The conditions are that —
(a) The creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
(b) A period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and
(c) The vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.
(3) In sub-paragraph (2)(a) “the relevant period” is the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the documents required by paragraph 13(2) are given to the creditor.[/I]

- You were required to send this information to me (as Registered Keeper) within 21 days after receiving them from the lease/hire company (Arval).
- You were required to send these documents to me no later than 49 days after the NTK was sent to the hire company, which was xx October.
- Therefore I should have received these documents no later than xx December 2015.
- As this has not happened, you cannot use POFA to assume keeper liability. There is more than one driver of the vehicle which you placed a PCN on.

In Summary...
- I wish to confirm to you I was NOT the driver of the vehicle.
- I am not obliged to disclose the identity of the driver and this does not affect my liability in this matter .
- As NGP Ltd has not complied with paragraphs 13 (2) and 14 (2) of POFA 2012, you cannot rely on the provisions of the Act and hold me liable as keeper.
- You will need to pursue this claim with the driver once you identify them."

Darknight2

I can also see another violation of PoFA 9(2)(f)

“Failure to pay the full amount of this notice within 28 days may…” 

Fruitcake

You mention dates several times, but have unhelpfully redacted them from your images. However, I can't see any reference to the PoFA 2012 in that NTK.

Is the company vehicle leased to your employer? 

You can either appeal as keeper, citing PoFA failures, or as hirer/lessee, or the fleet manager can appeal (or you can appeal on their behalf) using the edna basher "ABC company" letter.

Darknight2

Fruitcake said:

You mention dates several times, but have unhelpfully redacted them from your images.

Sorry wasn't sure if I should show them as I've read in other forums not to reveal any information regarding dates as they can trace them back? I'm happy to share if you think it's OK?

Fruitcake

Darknight2 said:

Fruitcake said:

You mention dates several times, but have unhelpfully redacted them from your images.

Sorry wasn't sure if I should show them as I've read in other forums not to reveal any information regarding dates as they can trace them back? I'm happy to share if you think it's OK?

We don't need to see the dates if you are 100% certain it makes the NTK non-PoFA compliant, and you intend to appeal as keeper. If you are not sure, and you intend to appeal as keeper, then we do need to see them. 

Darknight2

Fruitcake said:

Darknight2 said:

Fruitcake said:

You mention dates several times, but have unhelpfully redacted them from your images.

Sorry wasn't sure if I should show them as I've read in other forums not to reveal any information regarding dates as they can trace them back? I'm happy to share if you think it's OK?

We don't need to see the dates if you are 100% certain it makes the NTK non-PoFA compliant, and you intend to appeal as keeper. If you are not sure, and you intend to appeal as keeper, then we do need to see them. 

My employer (it's a Car company) actually owns the vehicle, so it's our own car fleet.

Coupon-mad

OK so they need to name you as the hirer (your name and address). That transfers the case to you and gets the company out of the equation.

Then you will receive a NTH to appeal as hirer, when you then use the Edna_Basher appeal shown in the company car dedicated section of the NEWBIES thread.

Darknight2

Coupon-mad said:

OK so they need to name you as the hirer (your name and address). That transfers the case to you and gets the company out of the equation.

Then you will receive a NTH to appeal as hirer, when you then use the Edna_Basher appeal shown in the company car dedicated section of the NEWBIES thread.

Can I not appeal as the Keeper and use my Company name and address (They have given me permission to act on their behalf)?