Civil service premium pension

SimonSeys

hugheskevi said:

SimonSeys said:

Secondly, what’s the figure stated as pensionable earnings in my ABS, am I right in thinking that someone has done the best of four / average of three in 13 for me, and that’s the figure in the ABS?

Nope. The ABS takes the extremely simplistic approach of just using whatever your pensionable earnings on 31st March are. These are used along with years of service to calculate pension entitlement. So the salary figure used to calculate ABS benefits reflects none of the 3 measures of final pensionable earnings under the scheme rules.

You will not find any of the inflation-adjusted figures or best final pensionable earnings anywhere in ABS or online portal. Prior to 2015, ABS used the best final pensionable earnings figure as calculated under scheme rules using the best of the 3 legs, but for almost 10 years the simplified approach has been used.

Thanks again. Good thing I checked!  Do you know why I might have different Pensionable Earnings figures shown for Alpha and Premium in the same ABS (premium is higher)?  I would have thought they should be the same. 

hugheskevi

SimonSeys said:

hugheskevi said:

SimonSeys said:

Secondly, what’s the figure stated as pensionable earnings in my ABS, am I right in thinking that someone has done the best of four / average of three in 13 for me, and that’s the figure in the ABS?

Nope. The ABS takes the extremely simplistic approach of just using whatever your pensionable earnings on 31st March are. These are used along with years of service to calculate pension entitlement. So the salary figure used to calculate ABS benefits reflects none of the 3 measures of final pensionable earnings under the scheme rules.

You will not find any of the inflation-adjusted figures or best final pensionable earnings anywhere in ABS or online portal. Prior to 2015, ABS used the best final pensionable earnings figure as calculated under scheme rules using the best of the 3 legs, but for almost 10 years the simplified approach has been used.

Thanks again. Good thing I checked!  Do you know why I might have different Pensionable Earnings figures shown for Alpha and Premium in the same ABS (premium is higher)?  I would have thought they should be the same. 

Alpha will use actual pensionable earnings for the scheme year (1 April - 31 March). Premium will use salary as at 31st March. 

If salary remains unchanged throughout the whole scheme year both Premium and alpha would be the same, but if salary increases during the scheme year then the stated Premium pensionable earnings will be higher. That is because the Premium stated pensionable earnings effectively apply the salary increase across the whole year, whereas the alpha pensionable earnings use the correct pensionable earnings for the scheme year.

That can actually be quite useful, as the stated alpha pensionable earnings are actually what the Premium pensionable earnings are too (in almost all cases, there can be rare exceptions). So it is possible to look back at old statements and use alpha pensionable earnings to get the Premium pensionable earnings to apply inflation adjustments to.

Robotoron

Thanks again @hugheskevi, really helpful. 

I've dropped myCSP an email to see if I can get the three different pensionable earnings figures, it at the very least my salary for each of the last 13 years. I can find all my previous payslips, and the pension portal only goes back to 2019. I'll let you all know if I have any success with myCSP!

SimonSeys

Thanks again,.  

Because i was promoted the year before the 10% CPI, the 4 years rule is ~4% higher than the 13 year 3 year average rule. 

I’m therefore thinking about moving to partnetship before 31st March 2026.  I need to do some more calcs though to compare Alpha vs Partnership and whether the benefit outweighs the difference in my Premium pension. 

Now it’s not that i don’t trust you @hugheskevi, but Ive just read through the scheme rules as like to do make sure I’ve done due diligence, especially on something so important as pensions.  The good news is that it looks like you're right! Who knew!  ;-]

Looking at 

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/media/5lxhbdal/pcsps-section-i-2002-section.pdf
under B 6 (3) I should exercise my option to join Partnership at least three months before 31st March.  Is this correct?

S

 

hugheskevi

SimonSeys said:

Now it’s not that i don’t trust you @hugheskevi, but Ive just read through the scheme rules as like to do make sure I’ve done due diligence, especially on something so important as pensions.  The good news is that it looks like you're right! Who knew!  ;-]

You are fortunate to be a Premium member (the 2002 section), the rules of which were mostly written in comprehensible English. Now if you were a member of the 1972 section, Classic, the chance of the scheme rules ever doing anything other than create further confusion is remote

SimonSeys said:

Looking at 

https://www.civilservicepensionscheme.org.uk/media/5lxhbdal/pcsps-section-i-2002-section.pdf
under B 6 (3) I should exercise my option to join Partnership at least three months before 31st March.  Is this correct?

The latest switch form requires at least 2 months notice of a switch. You would need to switch at the end of February, eg 28th February 2025 to avoid 2024/25 being a complete scheme year. So that requires notice to switch no later than 28th December 2025. Considering Christmas and minimising risk, I'd be submitting the request to switch very early in December, eg Monday 2nd December, to payroll. Any earlier risks payroll doing the switch in January instead (shouldn't happen, but best to try to minimise any possible chance of error).

SimonSeys

hugheskevi said:

SimonSeys said:

Now it’s not that i don’t trust you @hugheskevi, but Ive just read through the scheme rules as like to do make sure I’ve done due diligence, especially on something so important as pensions.  The good news is that it looks like you're right! Who knew!  ;-]

You are fortunate to be a Premium member (the 2002 section), the rules of which were mostly written in comprehensible English….

Haha.  I wouldn’t go that far.  It’s taken me several hours of reading and reading and rereading…

cosyc

hugheskevi said:

Here are the inflation adjustments for each year.


MyCSP should provide the figures for the 3 measures of final pensionable earnings as they are a matter of fact, not a forecast and a member has a legitimate reason to request them given they are essential for an accurate pension calculation. However whether they would is another matter - the biggest problem would be getting past them treating it as a request for a forecast rather than for existing values.

I was in Classic and Classic/Alpha, depending on my choice at point of retiring, I left 4 years ago but haven't taken my pension yet. 
Do the inflation adjustments apply to Classic/Alpha?

hugheskevi

cosyc said:

hugheskevi said:

Here are the inflation adjustments for each year.


MyCSP should provide the figures for the 3 measures of final pensionable earnings as they are a matter of fact, not a forecast and a member has a legitimate reason to request them given they are essential for an accurate pension calculation. However whether they would is another matter - the biggest problem would be getting past them treating it as a request for a forecast rather than for existing values.

I was in Classic and Classic/Alpha, depending on my choice at point of retiring, I left 4 years ago but haven't taken my pension yet. 
Do the inflation adjustments apply to Classic/Alpha?

You need to separate out the calculation of final pensionable earnings, which is what this refers to, and revaluation of deferred pension.

Classic generally doesn't have any inflation-protection in the final pensionable earnings calculation. The exception is if pensionable earnings decline in cash terms, ie, are actually reduced. Then a 3-year look back period applies, far shorter than the 13 years in Premium and Classic Plus. So in general, classic final pensionable earnings are simply earnings in last 12 months of employment.

Alpha is a completely different type of scheme, a career average scheme, and so does not have final pensionable earnings. Each year of accrual is added to past accrual and the whole lot increases in line with CPI.

Once deferred, both classic and alpha are revalued each year in line with CPI from the date of deferral.

maikally

cosyc said:

hugheskevi said:

Here are the inflation adjustments for each year.


MyCSP should provide the figures for the 3 measures of final pensionable earnings as they are a matter of fact, not a forecast and a member has a legitimate reason to request them given they are essential for an accurate pension calculation. However whether they would is another matter - the biggest problem would be getting past them treating it as a request for a forecast rather than for existing values.

I was in Classic and Classic/Alpha, depending on my choice at point of retiring, I left 4 years ago but haven't taken my pension yet. 
Do the inflation adjustments apply to Classic/Alpha?

hiya hugheskevi, I also have a premium pension and trying to work out the figures to take partial retirement. Information is very sparse and MyCSP will not provide me with any information - saying they are not regulated to give advise. I have repeatedly asked them to just provide me with the factual figures for the 3 measures in Premium but they referred me to my HR dept who also refer me back to MyCSP.

Thank you for the information you have provided.

Can I ask though where the inflation adjustments figures you've got in the image above come from?

hugheskevi

maikally said:

cosyc said:

hugheskevi said:

Here are the inflation adjustments for each year.


MyCSP should provide the figures for the 3 measures of final pensionable earnings as they are a matter of fact, not a forecast and a member has a legitimate reason to request them given they are essential for an accurate pension calculation. However whether they would is another matter - the biggest problem would be getting past them treating it as a request for a forecast rather than for existing values.

I was in Classic and Classic/Alpha, depending on my choice at point of retiring, I left 4 years ago but haven't taken my pension yet. 
Do the inflation adjustments apply to Classic/Alpha?

hiya hugheskevi, I also have a premium pension and trying to work out the figures to take partial retirement. Information is very sparse and MyCSP will not provide me with any information - saying they are not regulated to give advise. I have repeatedly asked them to just provide me with the factual figures for the 3 measures in Premium but they referred me to my HR dept who also refer me back to MyCSP.

Thank you for the information you have provided.

Can I ask though where the inflation adjustments figures you've got in the image above come from?

Your HR Dept won't have the figures. MyCSP do, they are a matter of fact, not a forecast, and no advice is involved. Getting MyCSP to actually give you your information adjusted past pensionable earnings figures is another matter though...

The figures from the image are just a screenshot of one of my own spreadsheets. They are the compounded public service pension increases from each past year.