PCN for not entering vehicle reg in the pub I was getting a drink at

jimbo778

I've received a PCN from Civil Enforcement Limited for "Failed to obtain a permit in accordance with the notified terms". The charge is £100, reduced to £60 if I pay within 14 days. However, I was parked in an allocated bay of the pub car park, which is for the use of patons, and I was a patron. My friend bought our drinks, but has provided a copy of his transaction to verify that.
I did not see a sign or requirement to register my car, but have been told there was. Also the pub staff did not tell me inside...which seems peculiar seeing as I get the idea of fining non-pub-goers, but otherwise you're just penalizing your customers who forget, miss the sign or enter the reg wrong.
I tried contacting the pub, but the telephone number online is out of service - it looks like they have recently changed hands.
I have appealed the fine on the basis of being a patron and the car park being for patrons + not seeing the sign. From what I have read the company will likely decline any appeal because they have to pay the DVLA for each fine they want to issue; and they don't care whether I was a patron. The pub are uncontactable, as mentioned, and it is not local to me.
On the assumption that the appeal fails, I would then appeal to POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals, which is the next step according to the letter. Can anyone confirm how independent and logical POPLA are, and therefore whether it would sound like I have a good chance at this second tier?
A lot of what I have read has people suggesting ignoring fines; but I have also heard a lot about this being unwise and CCJs being issued. So I would also like to understand any real-life experience people have had of taking their appeals to court.

fisherjim

Read the newbies thread on here, it explains it all, POPLA are not interested in any waffle only about the PPC's adherence to the process so don't fall into the trap of saying what happened on the day, POPLA are hardly independent being paid for by the PPC's ATA, but many of their so called assessors are also a bit on the dim side.

Also you will not see anywhere on any sign or paperwork the word "fine" because it isn't, you can't just get a "CCJ being issued", and you don't take your appeal to court!

Coupon-mad

POPLA are neither fully independent nor logical (not legally trained) and will only look at whether you input your VRM (which you didn't). They are paid by the parking firms.

So you'd lose.

IGNORE CEL NOW.

DO NOT PAY.

DO NOT TRY POPLA.

You don't need people's experiences. I've been doing this for 16 years or so, hence my six figure post count! We know what we are doing on this forum. 

Nobody in this country can just "issue a CCJ".  That is impossible. Please read:

- the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread

then:

- the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread.
That's all you need to know as long as you obviously don't move house without telling CEL and their daft debt crawlers.

That is all.

jimbo778

Coupon-mad said:

POPLA are neither fully independent nor logical (not legally trained) and will only look at whether you input your VRM (which you didn't). They are paid by the parking firms.

So you'd lose.

IGNORE CEL NOW.

DO NOT PAY.

DO NOT TRY POPLA.

You don't need people's experiences. I've been doing this for 16 years or so, hence my six figure post count! We know what we are doing on this forum. 

Nobody in this country can just "issue a CCJ".  That is impossible. Please read:

- the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread

then:

- the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread.
That's all you need to know as long as you obviously don't move house without telling CEL and their daft debt crawlers.

That is all.

I have actually just moved house, and just changed my vehicle log book V5C. Are you saying that I need to tell someone that and why / what are the ramifications of not telling them?

I'll look at 4th then 2nd posts now.

Thanks

KeithP

jimbo778 said:

Coupon-mad said:

POPLA are neither fully independent nor logical (not legally trained) and will only look at whether you input your VRM (which you didn't). They are paid by the parking firms.

So you'd lose.

IGNORE CEL NOW.

DO NOT PAY.

DO NOT TRY POPLA.

You don't need people's experiences. I've been doing this for 16 years or so, hence my six figure post count! We know what we are doing on this forum. 

Nobody in this country can just "issue a CCJ".  That is impossible. Please read:

- the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread

then:

- the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread.
That's all you need to know as long as you obviously don't move house without telling CEL and their daft debt crawlers.

That is all.

I have actually just moved house, and just changed my vehicle log book V5C. Are you saying that I need to tell someone that and why / what are the ramifications of not telling them?

Well an obvious risk is that Civil Enforcement Ltd find that they get no response from you when writing to your old address and automatically jump to the conclusion - wouldn't it be a good idea to send a Claim Form to that old address.
You would have no opportunity to defend yourself against that claim and a Default Judgment is awarded against you.
The next thing you know is that they then miraculously find your new address and hassle you for the money that the court has awarded them.

The moral - 

Always keep the Claimant informed if changing address.

Coupon-mad

Of course you must tell them.

Oh my ... surely you weren't planning on leaving a serial litigator (notorious for issuing court claims to old addresses with no checks) with an old address?  Eeek - that's the sure fire way you WOULD get a CCJ!

The vital words to use "erase my old address" are shown in the LBC response in the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread. 

Todunlami

I parked at my local pub on Saturday at 10:07 a.m. to have a drink with my daughter. We also had an appointment with our Doctor next door to pick up medication. The pub had chains to close the parking lot, but it was opened. We found the pub doors closed, and we walked around to pick up the medication and left the pub. It was only 20 minutes. I got a ticket for £60 in 14 days or £100.

A pub is a public space. Is this acceptable? Considering my daughter has a disability. Advice on the best action, please. Thanks.

Nellymoser

@Todunlami you need to start your own thread when looking for advice. Copy your post above into a new thread. Use the Create New or Red circle with +  to start new thread. 

Todunlami

Nellymoser said:

@Todunlami you need to start your own thread when looking for advice. Copy your post above into a new thread. Use the Create New or Red circle with +  to start new thread. 

Thanks @Nellymoser