Mizrahi Tefahot Bank Ltd

miss_curly

miss_curly said:

masonic said:

miss_curly said:

I think the take away is that Mizrahi Tefahot Bank is safe. I spoke to the FCA & the FSCS yesterday to double check and do my due diligence but one of the guys I spoke to posed the question / statement that if Raisin went under or bankrupt how would I access my money because Raisin isnt covered by the FSCS guarantee. However I had understood that because they use Clearpay which is protected and MIM & MAM, its all good.
Anyone shed anymore light on this please?

Do you mean ClearBank? Yes, your understanding is correct that the route your money takes in and out of the provider is via authorised firms with FSCS protection.

Yes, I meant Clearbank. Thanks.

Dear masonic

You are very obviously a huge source of knowledge and I thank you for your time and consideration of my questions already. If you would help and humour me a little further I'd be very grateful.

All my checking and due diligence of making sure Raisin UK is safe/protected by the guarantee scheme I seem to find that Raisin on the FSCS website is 'not protected' I found what I think is their FRN ( 813894 ) which doesn't show. Nor can I find MIM/MAM ?   Whilst I appreciate this must be an nuisance question to which there is probably a very simple and obvious answer but I have to learn somehow if I am to take advantage of better rates of interest and keep my financial world secure. Please educate.

masonic

miss_curly said:

miss_curly said:

masonic said:

miss_curly said:

I think the take away is that Mizrahi Tefahot Bank is safe. I spoke to the FCA & the FSCS yesterday to double check and do my due diligence but one of the guys I spoke to posed the question / statement that if Raisin went under or bankrupt how would I access my money because Raisin isnt covered by the FSCS guarantee. However I had understood that because they use Clearpay which is protected and MIM & MAM, its all good.
Anyone shed anymore light on this please?

Do you mean ClearBank? Yes, your understanding is correct that the route your money takes in and out of the provider is via authorised firms with FSCS protection.

Yes, I meant Clearbank. Thanks.

Dear masonic

You are very obviously a huge source of knowledge and I thank you for your time and consideration of my questions already. If you would help and humour me a little further I'd be very grateful.

All my checking and due diligence of making sure Raisin UK is safe/protected by the guarantee scheme I seem to find that Raisin on the FSCS website is 'not protected' I found what I think is their FRN ( 813894 ) which doesn't show. Nor can I find MIM/MAM ?   Whilst I appreciate this must be an nuisance question to which there is probably a very simple and obvious answer but I have to learn somehow if I am to take advantage of better rates of interest and keep my financial world secure. Please educate.

Raisin doesn't itself accept any client money. Instead, they instruct customers to send to Clearbank, which you have checked, and (mainly historically) to Meteor Asset Management (MAM).

You can verify that Raisin is not allowed to hold or control client money here: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=0010X00004D9RDEQA3

Meteor Asset Management is able to hold and control client money: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=001b000000MfgEnAAJ

...as can Clearbank: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=001b000003TEU71AAH

So, when funding an account at Raisin, you must ensure the account you send the money to is owned by one of these firms with client money permission rather than Raisin itself. Raisin doesn't need FSCS protection, because it cannot access your money. It only provides the marketplace for you to open accounts with savings providers.

You can do this by checking the account name in the bank details, or by using a sort code checker (as I think the Clearbank account will be in your name).

miss_curly

masonic said:

Dear masonic

You are very obviously a huge source of knowledge and I thank you for your time and consideration of my questions already. If you would help and humour me a little further I'd be very grateful.

All my checking and due diligence of making sure Raisin UK is safe/protected by the guarantee scheme I seem to find that Raisin on the FSCS website is 'not protected' I found what I think is their FRN ( 813894 ) which doesn't show. Nor can I find MIM/MAM ?   Whilst I appreciate this must be an nuisance question to which there is probably a very simple and obvious answer but I have to learn somehow if I am to take advantage of better rates of interest and keep my financial world secure. Please educate.

Raisin doesn't itself accept any client money. Instead, they instruct customers to send to Clearbank, which you have checked, and (mainly historically) to Meteor Asset Management (MAM).

You can verify that Raisin is not allowed to hold or control client money here: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=0010X00004D9RDEQA3

Meteor Asset Management is able to hold and control client money: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=001b000000MfgEnAAJ

...as can Clearbank: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=001b000003TEU71AAH

So, when funding an account at Raisin, you must ensure the account you send the money to is owned by one of these firms with client money permission rather than Raisin itself. Raisin doesn't need FSCS protection, because it cannot access your money. It only provides the marketplace for you to open accounts with savings providers.

You can do this by checking the account name in the bank details, or by using a sort code checker (as I think the Clearbank account will be in your name).

masonic .. again thank you.

May I ask, if the MSE website with its reliable and flawless reputation is advertising various accounts do you think that takes the worry out of the equation especially for a new saver like myself? I get that its good to be able to drill down into the minutia but for some reason I keep coming up against a mental block because I cant get the FRN of Raisin to show up on the FSCS website even though its given on the FCA website as 813894. Thats confusing to me. However, I understand you have said that Raisin doesn't handle client money. 

friolento

miss_curly said:

masonic said:

Dear masonic

You are very obviously a huge source of knowledge and I thank you for your time and consideration of my questions already. If you would help and humour me a little further I'd be very grateful.

All my checking and due diligence of making sure Raisin UK is safe/protected by the guarantee scheme I seem to find that Raisin on the FSCS website is 'not protected' I found what I think is their FRN ( 813894 ) which doesn't show. Nor can I find MIM/MAM ?   Whilst I appreciate this must be an nuisance question to which there is probably a very simple and obvious answer but I have to learn somehow if I am to take advantage of better rates of interest and keep my financial world secure. Please educate.

Raisin doesn't itself accept any client money. Instead, they instruct customers to send to Clearbank, which you have checked, and (mainly historically) to Meteor Asset Management (MAM).

You can verify that Raisin is not allowed to hold or control client money here: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=0010X00004D9RDEQA3

Meteor Asset Management is able to hold and control client money: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=001b000000MfgEnAAJ

...as can Clearbank: https://register.fca.org.uk/s/firm?id=001b000003TEU71AAH

So, when funding an account at Raisin, you must ensure the account you send the money to is owned by one of these firms with client money permission rather than Raisin itself. Raisin doesn't need FSCS protection, because it cannot access your money. It only provides the marketplace for you to open accounts with savings providers.

You can do this by checking the account name in the bank details, or by using a sort code checker (as I think the Clearbank account will be in your name).

masonic .. again thank you.

May I ask, if the MSE website with its reliable and flawless reputation is advertising various accounts do you think that takes the worry out of the equation especially for a new saver like myself? I get that its good to be able to drill down into the minutia but for some reason I keep coming up against a mental block because I cant get the FRN of Raisin to show up on the FSCS website even though its given on the FCA website as 813894. Thats confusing to me. However, I understand you have said that Raisin doesn't handle client money. 

MSE, as well as the MSE Forum, can usually be relied on for only posting FSCS protected accounts, or pointing out if there is no FSCS protection, but if they did make a mistake, you would have no comeback. It is always your responsibility where you deposit your money.

You wouldn't find Raisin on the FSCS website for the reasons @masonic has explained.

penners324

Bostonerimus1 said:

Cus said:

Bostonerimus1 said:

miss_curly said:

masonic said:

subjecttocontract said:

aroominyork said:

Maybe your question is whether a bank can put an FSCS logo on their marketing materials when they do not actually have FSCS recognition? Fair question. You can use the FSCS checker at https://www.fscs.org.uk/check/check-your-money-is-protected. That shows that Mizrahi Tefahot is covered by FSCS. How your money reaches them - through a Raisin-like platform or directly - makes no difference. 

I think it highly unlikely, probably impossible for a bank to put a false FSCS logo on their marketing materials when being advertised through a platform such as Raisin.

Agreed, and the same could be said for Moneyfacts, MSE etc, but it wouldn't stop me checking before handing over my money.

How do you actually check though?
I have phoned the fscs and they weren't very helpful, they told me to call the bank which I've done and they didn't seem to know! Ive read that any deposit made needs to be held in the uk to qualify for protection so I asked the bank that and it is doubtful that the money would stay in the UK .... what am I missing? Did I ask the wrong question? 

This looks like a lot of bother. What's more important to you? A few tenths of a percent higher interest rate or not worrying about where you are putting your money?

But that's the whole point about the FSCS protection, it's simple. You click that link, type in mizrahi, and it tells you you are protected. If you type in Halifax, you see the same thing, same links etc. They protect because they have a UK branch.

A few tenths of a percent, over many years, adds up to a lot of money.  We see this argument to manage fees of a few tenths a lot with investments, no difference here imo.

Low fees/good interest rates are important, but so is going with a high quality provider that you have confidence in. So no matter how low the fees or high the returns I would not invest with a fund company I had not heard of before. This bank looks just fine, but I always ask the question why are they giving the best rates? they must want your money more than anyone else. I'm ok giving up a few quid for my peace of mind, particularly when it comes to cash.

The discussion here is, would you put £1 million into an account with Mizhari Tefahot? No.
Would you put £85k into it? Yes. Due to FSCS cover.

With Flagstone it gives a rating of each bank. Not sure if Raisin do as well

k12479

penners324 said:
The discussion here is, would you put £1 million into an account with Mizhari Tefahot? No.

Would you put £85k into it? Yes. Due to FSCS cover.

£85k gets mentioned like it's a red line which must never be crossed.

People are not risking penury if they hold £85,0024.37 in an account.

Conversely, while £85k or less in an account is fully protected, the FSCS will take up to 7 working days to reimburse it which, depending on public holidays and transfer times, could be over two weeks and create its own issues.

masonic

k12479 said:

penners324 said:
The discussion here is, would you put £1 million into an account with Mizhari Tefahot? No.

Would you put £85k into it? Yes. Due to FSCS cover.

£85k gets mentioned like it's a red line which must never be crossed.

People are not risking penury if they hold £85,0024.37 in an account.

Conversely, while £85k or less in an account is fully protected, the FSCS will take up to 7 working days to reimburse it which, depending on public holidays and transfer times, could be over two weeks and create its own issues.

The argument not to have all your eggs in one basket is a well rehearsed one and often rightly seen around these parts. It's not just if a bank fails, I'm sure we've all seen the effects of IT outages and read about people's accounts being temporarily frozen. Cash you might need in a hurry should be spread around a bit.

miss_curly

masonic said:

miss_curly said:

How do you actually check though?
I have phoned the fscs and they weren't very helpful, they told me to call the bank which I've done and they didn't seem to know! Ive read that any deposit made needs to be held in the uk to qualify for protection so I asked the bank that and it is doubtful that the money would stay in the UK .... what am I missing? Did I ask the wrong question? 

I started a thread on the topic a long time ago with some guidance: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5892874/when-fscs-protection-does-not-apply

The FCA register also contains contact details for the relevant authorised firms, and these should be matched against the details you hold. It is quite common for fraudsters to try to impersonate genuine firms, so it is advisable to check the details for any firm you haven't got an ongoing relationship with, even the well known ones.

Good afternoon @masonic
yes, I'm afraid its me again ><.

I'm almost up to speed with what I need to know and understand at a very basic level regards checking for FCA authorisation etc. However there is just one thing bugging me which I cant shake before I take the plunge and I thought perhaps you could educate me in simple terms (please).

Why when Meteor Asset Management and their sister MIM have FRN numbers and are apparently covered by the FSCS deposit guarantee do these FRN's or names not appear to be listed on the FSCS website but only on the FCA? 

Thanks in advance .....  (the thanks button doesn't seem adequate gratitude for your time)

masonic

miss_curly said:

masonic said:

miss_curly said:

How do you actually check though?
I have phoned the fscs and they weren't very helpful, they told me to call the bank which I've done and they didn't seem to know! Ive read that any deposit made needs to be held in the uk to qualify for protection so I asked the bank that and it is doubtful that the money would stay in the UK .... what am I missing? Did I ask the wrong question? 

I started a thread on the topic a long time ago with some guidance: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5892874/when-fscs-protection-does-not-apply

The FCA register also contains contact details for the relevant authorised firms, and these should be matched against the details you hold. It is quite common for fraudsters to try to impersonate genuine firms, so it is advisable to check the details for any firm you haven't got an ongoing relationship with, even the well known ones.

Good afternoon @masonic
yes, I'm afraid its me again ><.

I'm almost up to speed with what I need to know and understand at a very basic level regards checking for FCA authorisation etc. However there is just one thing bugging me which I cant shake before I take the plunge and I thought perhaps you could educate me in simple terms (please).

Why when Meteor Asset Management and their sister MIM have FRN numbers and are apparently covered by the FSCS deposit guarantee do these FRN's or names not appear to be listed on the FSCS website but only on the FCA? 

Thanks in advance .....  (the thanks button doesn't seem adequate gratitude for your time)

You won't find non-banks/building societies listed in the Bank & Savings protection checker from the FSCS. They say:

So they do not list firms that just manage and control client money, and don't accept deposits themselves. It doesn't mean FSCS protection is unavailable for these firms. The FSCS does also have an Investment Protection Checker, where ostensibly MAM/MIM might be listed, but the form is complex and unsuited to a query about managing money on its way to a savings provider. 

The FCA register is the authoritative source of information about whether a firm is authorised to perform these regulated activities, and it is for these activities that consumers gain FSCS protection. It is the FCA, in consultation with the administrators of the failed firm and High Court, who ultimately make the decision as to whether the FSCS is permitted to settle claims if a financial firm goes bust. They will trigger compensation if (not an exhaustive list):

• The firm accepted money into a deposit account and was authorised to do so (the bit covered by the FSCS checker)
• The firm managed client money or mainstream investments, where these assets were found to be missing, if the firm was authorised to manage client money
  
• The customer had been awarded compensation from the Financial Ombudsman Service in response to a complaint (complaint can be started before or after the firm failed)
  
• The customer had received unsuitable regulated financial advice from the firm that caused a loss, and it was authorised to give it

miss_curly

@masonic  I think I see!

 Literally because the FCA website lists MAM with the following permission/authority .. that is all I need to see to be sure of fscs cover?



I have two further questions 

If permission was withdrawn from an institution or intermediary at any point during the mid term of a fixed rate deposit or for monies in transit (I appreciate its not likely) ... any ideas how that would be handled?

Also, is the PRA an alternative to the FCA but essentially the same thing where permissions and authorisations are concerned for the various institutions?

many many thanks