Buying land with an unbreakable promise can I do this?

FlorayG

I own a field in which I keep my horses. A good friend of mine owns the field next to it, where she keeps her horses. One of hers recently died and the other is elderly, and she is 70 herself so won't be getting any more horses when this one goes, so I asked her what she planned to do with the field and she hasn't decided. She doesn't want to rent it out because people renting horse land are nothing but trouble and she doesn't want to sell it because she's leaving it in her will to her daughter
Now, I have nobody to leave 'stuff' or money to and my will leaves pretty much everything to charity, so I would happily let her daughter have it when I die if I bought it. I'm wondering if there's any way she can sell me the field and still ensure that her daughter definitely inherits? It's not enough for me to promise to leave it to her in my will because wills can be changed so I would be looking for something that I could not 'get out of' once signed.
The benefit to her would be lots of money in the bank and no field to look after
The benefit to me would be getting a second field at much less than open market price
I haven't suggested the possibility to her yet as I don't know how it would be done

k12479

It sounds like a lease might be a better option than a sale.

FlorayG

k12479 said:

It sounds like a lease might be a better option than a sale.

neither of us would be happy with that option

k12479

It's the most obvious option where one party retains some control while another party gets use.

A 'sale & promise to give' approach would appear to have numerous risks like deprivation of capital or gifting/IHT implications for the seller or having to be sold for care costs, debts, IHT/estate debts for the buyer.

A trust may be an option, but might be excessive hassle for a field.

housebuyer143

What are your plans for it? Will she just let you use it if she is going to leave it empty otherwise? Not sure of your relationship.

GrumpyDil

FlorayG said:

k12479 said:

It sounds like a lease might be a better option than a sale.

neither of us would be happy with that option

Any particular reason as that sounds a decent suggestion?

FlorayG

Anyone who has rented or leased a field for their horses would be able to answer that for you
I want to buy it or I'm not interested
Can anyone advise on my original question?

FlorayG

k12479 said:

A 'sale & promise to give' approach would appear to have numerous risks like deprivation of capital or gifting/IHT implications for the seller or having to be sold for care costs, debts, IHT/estate debts for the buyer.

A trust may be an option, but might be excessive hassle for a field.

We're looking at in excess of £70,000 here would it still be 'excessive hassle'?
I'm also concerned about the 'care' implications, of course if it wasn't 'promised' legally it might have to be sold (but that could happen to the current owner too)

Kim_13

I don't think there can be any guarantees - if she still owns it and later needs care, it could end up having to be sold if the market value is more than £23,250 (this is the total amount protected, so if it was under and she kept the field in order to leave it to her daughter, she would have less in her bank to cover any expenses that are above the £20ish a week allowed.)

If you own it it could be taken if you need care / you could change your will as you say (but as you have no one to leave stuff to and are presumably at a similar age, it's unlikely that that would change.)

If she wants to guarantee it for her daughter she might consider transferring it now and hoping that it will fall outside of IHT / selling it to the daughter now.

There are restrictive covenants but I don't know if she could place one saying that you were to have use of it for your lifetime/leave you use of it in her will but the land absolute to her daughter.

She will have to explore all options available and decide which one is most likely to achieve the outcome she wants. 

k12479

FlorayG said:

We're looking at in excess of £70,000 here would it still be 'excessive hassle'?....of course if it wasn't 'promised' legally it might have to be sold

Don't know, a trust expert is needed. But there are implications of putting it into a trust, operating it and, possibly, of you retaining use of it. It can't be promised legally, just as your friend cannot guarantee it will end up with her daughter by leaving it in her will. You/your estate will have an asset that won't be disregarded because it's been promised to the daughter of the person you bought it from.

FlorayG said:

Anyone who has rented or leased a field for their horses would be able to answer that for you

I think many of us can envisage issues with renting, perhaps less so with leasing. But this begs the question - if neither of you would be happy entering into a lease, how is some 'sale & promise' arrangement going to protect or make any of you happier?

Kim_13 said:

...it could end up having to be sold...There are restrictive covenants but I don't know if she could place one saying that you were to have use of it for your lifetime/leave you use of it in her will but the land absolute to her daughter. 

This risks creating issues for the future. If it has to be sold, then a covenant granting someone access for an indeterminate period will devalue it or, like many threads, someone will be struggling to find out if a covenant is still valid, who can remove it, etc.