Supermarket PCN - Horizon - Time Limit recently changed, first time help needed

Ack77

Coupon-mad said:

Ack77 said:

If neither Asda nor the retail park owner/agent will cancel this PCN when you complain (PLAN A which should work by contacting the retail park site agents and explaining / complaining about the unannounced change), then deploy PLAN B:

Just appeal to Horizon, then POPLA, saying that the operator appears to have just put a sticker over the free hours and changed it from x to y which doesn't comply with the BPA CoP clause (whatever).  Show a photo of the sticker on a sign as evidence for POPLA.

Say there were no additional signs up to warn people familiar with the old time limit.

Should be an easy win at POPLA.

You cannot use the POFA argument because that new NTK is finally POFA -compliant after all these years.

Only took Horizon 12 years!

I wasn’t a customer at the time. I should have asked them but I didn’t. Anyway I ended up paying but I should have called Asda. 

Coupon-mad

Oh dear.  There was a principle here too.

People who pay fund and effectively sponsor the automated scam of private parking, and that £42 has funded more PCNs being churned out to more victims.

poiuyt12345

"You cannot use the POFA argument because that new NTK is finally POFA -compliant after all these years." 

Hello all. I am new here asking for help. I received two fines for overstaying in two different occasions 15 days apart, the tickets were issued 11 days apart and I had not received the first PCN when I parked the second time (I wonder if I can challenge the second one using this justification with POPLA). I received the exact same letters as posted here so they are POFA compliant. I appealed using the POFA template I saw in another post here. Unfortunately they replied:

"Review of your Appeal

 The Parking Charge was issued lawfully and in full and proper accordance with the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice issued by the British Parking Association (the ‘BPA’).

There are signs located at the entrance to, and within the car park that state the terms and conditions that apply when parking. 

One of the terms and conditions is that vehicles must not exceed the maximum stay period allowed. As this vehicle was found to be parked longer than the maximum period allowed, a Parking Charge was correctly issued.

The signs throughout the car park are clear and comply fully with the BPA’s prescribed rules and regulations.  When parking on private land, it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure they adhere to the terms and conditions of the car park concerned.

As we have not been provided with the name and a serviceable address for the driver/hirer, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we do have the right, subject to meeting the requirements of the Act, to recover from the Registered Keeper the amount that remains outstanding. We have obtained the name and address of the registered keeper of the vehicle from the DVLA for the purposes of enforcing this charge.

Given the above, and whilst we have considered your representations carefully, on this occasion your appeal has been rejected."

I was looking for information online but saw this post too late and now I see that they were going to reject it straight away since this new letter is POFA compliant. I spoke to the Tesco manager but he said he could not help since I overstayed for 8 hours, way over the 3 hours limit. I also told him I'm a regular customer (which is true and I have bank statements as proof) but that did not help either. 

I drove back to the store to check for signs and there are no signs at the entrance of the car park about it being private or that there was a time limit. This is an open car park on a Tesco Extra (Lee Valley). There are signs on the wall outside around the store and some posts but when I drove the route I originally took I only encountered one sign.

Horizon gave me a reference number in case I wanted to appeal to POPLA which I will when I know the best procedure. 

Is there any legit way to avoid paying these two fines? These are my first tickets ever. 

Thank you all. 

Gr1pr

For poiuyt12345 

Please start a new thread of your own,  copy and paste your query into it 

One person,  one thread here

Coupon-mad

poiuyt12345 said:

"You cannot use the POFA argument because that new NTK is finally POFA -compliant after all these years." 

Hello all. I am new here asking for help. I received two fines for overstaying in two different occasions 15 days apart, the tickets were issued 11 days apart and I had not received the first PCN when I parked the second time (I wonder if I can challenge the second one using this justification with POPLA). I received the exact same letters as posted here so they are POFA compliant. I appealed using the POFA template I saw in another post here. Unfortunately they replied:

"Review of your Appeal

 The Parking Charge was issued lawfully and in full and proper accordance with the Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice issued by the British Parking Association (the ‘BPA’).

There are signs located at the entrance to, and within the car park that state the terms and conditions that apply when parking. 

One of the terms and conditions is that vehicles must not exceed the maximum stay period allowed. As this vehicle was found to be parked longer than the maximum period allowed, a Parking Charge was correctly issued.

The signs throughout the car park are clear and comply fully with the BPA’s prescribed rules and regulations.  When parking on private land, it is the driver’s responsibility to ensure they adhere to the terms and conditions of the car park concerned.

As we have not been provided with the name and a serviceable address for the driver/hirer, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we do have the right, subject to meeting the requirements of the Act, to recover from the Registered Keeper the amount that remains outstanding. We have obtained the name and address of the registered keeper of the vehicle from the DVLA for the purposes of enforcing this charge.

Given the above, and whilst we have considered your representations carefully, on this occasion your appeal has been rejected."

I was looking for information online but saw this post too late and now I see that they were going to reject it straight away since this new letter is POFA compliant. I spoke to the Tesco manager but he said he could not help since I overstayed for 8 hours, way over the 3 hours limit. I also told him I'm a regular customer (which is true and I have bank statements as proof) but that did not help either. 

I drove back to the store to check for signs and there are no signs at the entrance of the car park about it being private or that there was a time limit. This is an open car park on a Tesco Extra (Lee Valley). There are signs on the wall outside around the store and some posts but when I drove the route I originally took I only encountered one sign.

Horizon gave me a reference number in case I wanted to appeal to POPLA which I will when I know the best procedure. 

Is there any legit way to avoid paying these two fines? These are my first tickets ever. 

Thank you all. 

You've quoted something I wrongly said months ago! I retract that statement.

The Horizon NTK is not 'POFA compliant' after all and this is explained in a Horizon case heard by POPLA in the Autumn.