DIY Deed of variation

JakeHyde

Hi everyone,
I'm in a bit of a pickle trying to sort out my dear mums will.

It will be 2 years at the end of the month, and dad and I are trying to resolve mums will. She wasn't happy with what the solicitor wrote, putting everything in dad's name, and wanted to change it. There is only Dad and myself in the will, and with my dad being nearly 80, it makes sense for me to inherit the majority of Mum's estate.

I read here: https://www.gov.uk/alter-a-will-after-a-death
"You don’t need a formal document or deed - you can write a letter as long as it meets these conditions."

Has anyone had experience with this. I don't suppose you have a template I could use?

I also have some overseas land/CGT questions, but I might post that in a separate thread to avoid complication.

I know I've left it all quite last minute, sorry.
But I would be grateful for any advice that could help me untangle this mess.
I can't get an appointment with a solicitor before the deadline. but if it's a case of a letter. I can do that myself, if I just know what to write 🥹

Thank you in advance. 🙏

justwhat

We modified this https://www.rocketlawyer.com/gb/en/family-and-personal/make-wills-and-trusts/document/deed-of-variation.

Only the deed has to be done within 2 years. Liquidation of assets and transfer can take longer.

Emmia

JakeHyde said:

Hi everyone,
I'm in a bit of a pickle trying to sort out my dear mums will.

It will be 2 years at the end of the month, and dad and I are trying to resolve mums will. She wasn't happy with what the solicitor wrote, putting everything in dad's name, and wanted to change it. There is only Dad and myself in the will, and with my dad being nearly 80, it makes sense for me to inherit the majority of Mum's estate.

I read here: https://www.gov.uk/alter-a-will-after-a-death
"You don’t need a formal document or deed - you can write a letter as long as it meets these conditions."

Has anyone had experience with this. I don't suppose you have a template I could use?

I also have some overseas land/CGT questions, but I might post that in a separate thread to avoid complication.

I know I've left it all quite last minute, sorry.
But I would be grateful for any advice that could help me untangle this mess.
I can't get an appointment with a solicitor before the deadline. but if it's a case of a letter. I can do that myself, if I just know what to write 🥹

Thank you in advance. 🙏

Does it make sense for you to inherit? Normally assets like the marital home would pass between spouses (assuming they were married) and there's no IHT for that transfer.

Does your father have enough i.e housing he owns outright that he lives in, decent pension income etc. without getting anything from your mother?

If you're thinking that by moving the assets to you, bypassing your father would mean you might avoid care costs, and get local authority funding... that is something the council will look at under deprivation of assets - a will drafted many years ago in a certain way is one thing, a last minute deed of variation 2 years after the death and which overrides most of the provisions in the will (and particularly excluding the previous main beneficiary, who is seeking for care costs to be covered) is quite another.

Edit: Also why has it taken this long for you to decide to get a deed of variation??

Keep_pedalling

Sorry but why does it make sense to do this? Even if your father has plenty of assets in his own name and deprivation of assets does not come into the picture, it is almost never a good idea to use a DoV to pass in inheritance from a spouse to someone else because spousal exemption is lost as is some or all of transferable NRB. In the longer term this could cost you in IHT on his death and possibly CGT if he was foolish enough involve his home.

If your mother’s death leaves him with surplus assets then it is better to avoid a DoV and for him to make simple gifts that at least have a change of passing out of his estate in 7 years. 

Grumpy_chap

JakeHyde said:

it makes sense for me to inherit the majority of Mum's estate.

Sorry for your loss.

Why does it make sense?

If this is to do with IHT:

1. Is the Estate large enough to be liable for IHT?
2. Will the IHT liability be reduced?  Transfer to Father will not use any of the Mother's NRB.  When Father passes, the Estate will benefit from the combined value of both Father's and Mother's NRB.

If this is to do with avoiding care home fees or maintaining Father's eligibility for any state support, the DoV is likely to be seen as DoA and the assets deemed to still be the Father's.  Surely Father (and the OP) want Father to be able to have the best possible care if ever required, rather than the minimum care that the state provides.


What is actually in the Mother's Estate?  

1. Many jointly owned assets may automatically have become Father's when the Mother passed.  It depends on how assets were owned.  It may be that Mother's Estate is less than the OP thinks it is.
2. Depending on what assets may pass to the OP, there may be CGT liability created that would not otherwise arise.  OP's cost of purchasing own home may be impacted.
3. OP's access to means tested benefits may be impacted.  

I think a more complete picture would be required for any advice to be complete.

Keep_pedalling

You posted a thread some time back about buying a house with money your mother left you, so it seems she has already provided for you.

You also posted about protecting your father’s assets from care costs, and the advice you got there was that he should not do it. It does not benefit him to do this unless he really fancies living out his final days in Over my dead body grange. You build up assets in your lifetime to make sure in your final days you can be as comfortable as possible and hopefully leave something for your children, but the first of those should always come first after all you earned that not your potential beneficiaries.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6437343/how-to-protect-parents-assets-and-avoid-deprivation-of-assets/p1

if your father ever needs care don’t you think he deserves the best he can get? Should he be able to afford a live in carer and stay in his own home if he wants? These choices are only available if you can afford them and at his age he would be foolish to give those up.

Emmia

Keep_pedalling said:

You posted a thread some time back about buying a house with money your mother left you, so it seems she has already provided for you.

You also posted about protecting your father’s assets from care costs, and the advice you got there was that he should not do it. It does not benefit him to do this unless he really fancies living out his final days in Over my dead body grange. You build up assets in your lifetime to make sure in your final days you can be as comfortable as possible and hopefully leave something for your children, but the first of those should always come first after all you earned that not your potential beneficiaries.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6437343/how-to-protect-parents-assets-and-avoid-deprivation-of-assets/p1

if your father ever needs care don’t you think he deserves the best he can get? Should he be able to afford a live in carer and stay in his own home if he wants? These choices are only available if you can afford them and at his age he would be foolish to give those up.

I completely agree. Even if the OP can afford to pay for carers for his father, there's no guarantee he will... From the father's perspective it's better if the father has the money in his control to pay for his own care.

tetrarch

You can scrape the text for a DoV without downloading anything from here:

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/can-i-draw-up-a-simple-deed-of-variation-myself

Regards

Tet

JakeHyde

justwhat said:

We modified this https://www.rocketlawyer.com/gb/en/family-and-personal/make-wills-and-trusts/document/deed-of-variation.

Only the deed has to be done within 2 years. Liquidation of assets and transfer can take longer.

Brilliant, thank you 🙏
Yes the 11th hour is upon me, so I need to get cracking! 🤢

JakeHyde

Emmia said:

Does it make sense for you to inherit? Normally assets like the marital home would pass between spouses (assuming they were married) and there's no IHT for that transfer.

The family home isn't part of the consideration, just Mum's saving that she wanted me to have.

Emmia said:

Edit: Also why has it taken this long for you to decide to get a deed of variation??

The reason it's taken so long is the complication or land in Cyprus (a separate post I'm yet to make)... and grief!
I've not been well, and the was just something I wasn't able to face.

JakeHyde

Keep_pedalling said:

You posted a thread some time back about buying a house with money your mother left you, so it seems she has already provided for you.

The money she wanted to leave me is the money I'm trying to release with a DoV. She wasn't happy with the will and wanted change it, but we thought we had all the time in the world to do so.