Car insurance for a business that carries passengers

CumbriaCarer

Good morning, MSE community.

I am a self employed carer that occasionally drives my clients from place to place, but not for reward; however, I charge set fee for mileage, which is industry standard. (I'm paid by the hour, whether I'm cleaning, caring or driving for them)

I found an insurer that would cover for this type of work, and I even received the transcript of the conversation as proof they were covering me.

A year has gone by and policy auto-renewed, so I went to print off the certificate and noticed the cover is only for driving to and from a place of work.  

What I need to establish is if there is a policy that covers the type of service described, and which companies provide it. 
Surely the thousands of carers that offer identical services as myself, don't need to be licenced private hire drivers? 
It is absolutely essential I am covered correctly, which I thought I was until today.  

Any advice would be gratefully received. 

CC.

BarelySentientAI

Sounds like Hire & Reward insurance to me - you are carrying passengers as part of your business.

Or Business Class 1 without a hire & reward exclusion.

FlorayG

You are driving for reward because you are charging your hourly rate as well as mileage while transporting people, so you need hire and reward insurance

DullGreyGuy

CumbriaCarer said:

I am a self employed carer that occasionally drives my clients from place to place, but not for reward; however, I charge set fee for mileage, which is industry standard. (I'm paid by the hour, whether I'm cleaning, caring or driving for them)

I found an insurer that would cover for this type of work, and I even received the transcript of the conversation as proof they were covering me.

A year has gone by and policy auto-renewed, so I went to print off the certificate and noticed the cover is only for driving to and from a place of work.  

What I need to establish is if there is a policy that covers the type of service described, and which companies provide it. 
Surely the thousands of carers that offer identical services as myself, don't need to be licenced private hire drivers? 
It is absolutely essential I am covered correctly, which I thought I was until today.  

Business Class 1 - allows the policyholder to drive to places beyond just their permanent place of work as long as the driving is incidental to their work... ie the "work" is when they get to their destination not actually getting there

Hire & Reward - enables the allowed drivers to accept payment for transporting things or people 


So under class 1 you could drive to a meeting and take a colleague with you and get the HMRC allowed 5p/mile for the passenger (if using your own vehicle). If however you weren't going to the meeting but as you had your car at work were asked to drive a colleague to the meeting then thats Hire & Reward as the only "work" your doing is the transportation of the person. 


Carers are in a bit of a grey area, I'd argue with a strict definition it is Hire & Reward but some have claimed to have insurers comfortable covering it under business and some state the company they work for have a top up policy for the times they are driving with their carees in the vehicle. 

CumbriaCarer

DullGreyGuy said:

CumbriaCarer said:

I am a self employed carer that occasionally drives my clients from place to place, but not for reward; however, I charge set fee for mileage, which is industry standard. (I'm paid by the hour, whether I'm cleaning, caring or driving for them)

I found an insurer that would cover for this type of work, and I even received the transcript of the conversation as proof they were covering me.

A year has gone by and policy auto-renewed, so I went to print off the certificate and noticed the cover is only for driving to and from a place of work.  

What I need to establish is if there is a policy that covers the type of service described, and which companies provide it. 
Surely the thousands of carers that offer identical services as myself, don't need to be licenced private hire drivers? 
It is absolutely essential I am covered correctly, which I thought I was until today.  

Business Class 1 - allows the policyholder to drive to places beyond just their permanent place of work as long as the driving is incidental to their work... ie the "work" is when they get to their destination not actually getting there

Hire & Reward - enables the allowed drivers to accept payment for transporting things or people 


So under class 1 you could drive to a meeting and take a colleague with you and get the HMRC allowed 5p/mile for the passenger (if using your own vehicle). If however you weren't going to the meeting but as you had your car at work were asked to drive a colleague to the meeting then thats Hire & Reward as the only "work" your doing is the transportation of the person. 


Carers are in a bit of a grey area, I'd argue with a strict definition it is Hire & Reward but some have claimed to have insurers comfortable covering it under business and some state the company they work for have a top up policy for the times they are driving with their carees in the vehicle. 

Thank you for the response.

I don't subcontract so all clients are my own. 
I have no issue paying for a hire and reward policy, but I draw the line at becoming a licensed taxi. 
Do you know if there are H&R policies available for non PSV/PH/HACKNEY license holders? 

You're not wrong about grey area! All the carers in the network provide this service. 

When I started over a year ago, I spoke directly to an insurance broker; her advice and insistence was NOT to open a can of worms by declaring such activity. She said just get business insurance and say nowt.  

Great idea until there's an accident & we have an injured elderly client. 

So, I need to find H&R insurance for no taxi drivers.  

DullGreyGuy

H&R is typically purchased by either taxis (in their various guises) or couriers as they are the most volumous users and so most websites etc are aimed at them but car owning chauffeurs etc fall into the same field (though dont require half the checks etc that a taxi driver has to have). 

Your probably best speaking to a decent broker and getting advice from them as, at the end of the day, if their advice is wrong you can hold them liable unlike a random person on a forum. Adrian Flux is normally fairly good, not a fan of Towergate but they do have a specialist team in the care space etc

XRS200

I wouldn't have thought this is hire and reward.

OP, is there a self employed carers forum anywhere that you could ask what others do ?

sheramber

Others may not necessarily do the correct thing. 

The best people to ask are the insurance company as they are the ones who will say yay or nay when there if there is a claim.

CumbriaCarer

XRS200 said:

I wouldn't have thought this is hire and reward.

OP, is there a self employed carers forum anywhere that you could ask what others do ?

I wouldn't have thought so either, but feedback thus far suggests it is.

The care industry is massive with thousands of carers offering this service; each and every one I know operates on a standard business policy.

I couldn't find one. If I raised this in a carer's forum, it probably wouldn't go down very well. I've emailed one of the brokers mentioned above, so I'll see what they have to say.

Thank you.

OlsBean

I was wondering if you ever got a definitive answer to this as I’m in a similar situation. I work for charity that supports individuals in their own homes, I’m paid an hourly rate and now and again I take them out in my own car for which I’m paid the standard mileage of 45p a mile, I have Business insurance but it’s now being suggested that it should be Hire and Reward Insurance, it seems to be such a grey area and all I’ve found is conflicting information. 10’s of thousands support workers/carers do this, not that I accept that as an endorsement.