Barclay Card Reward Card - decline/acceptance

Nasqueron

CliveOfIndia said:

Urban_Bumpkin said:

I thought lenders use CRAs

They use the CRAs to get hold of your raw data, which they feed into their own internal algorithms to general their own - confidential - internal score.  They can't even see the score dished out by the CRAs.

Urban_Bumpkin said:

although they're not obligated to give a detailed reason why you were refused credit, they did have to give a reason for the refusal and the CRA that was used. Is that not the case? I'm genuinely interested.

No, they don't have to give a reason.  Firstly, if they did, you could just make another application and be - shall we say - less than economical with the truth on your application, gaming the system to make sure you passed their checks.  Plus, it would expose some of their acceptance criteria - which, as I said earlier, are highly confidential.

Some lenders will publish which CRAs they use (though they're not obliged to).  Not that it matters - each CRA will hold broadly similar information (the only caveat being that not all lenders report to all 3 CRAs.  So you may, for example, see a credit card account being reported to one CRA but not another).

And ultimately, remember that access to credit is a privilege, not a right.  Any lender is free to choose not to lend to you for any reason at all, just so long as it's not based on a protected characteristic (gender, sexuality, religious belief, etc.)

On your middle paragraph, they don't need to say but you can find out easily enough as sites like this have them - you'd know because you got the hard search on your account and the lenders aren't likely to jump between agencies for different applications

hpuse

Nasqueron said:

On your middle paragraph, they don't need to say but you can find out easily enough as sites like this have them - you'd know because you got the hard search on your account and the lenders aren't likely to jump between agencies for different applications

It is very difficult to get the precise reason why a lender refused credit, mainly becuase unlike human judgements - algorithms uses a list of parameters to attach risk weightage to each individual application and derive its merit from the applicant responses. 

In general

lesser risk score= better the chances of application acceptance.

Higher merit score = higher credit limit

Urban_Bumpkin

No, they don't have to give a reason.  Firstly, if they did, you could just make another application and be - shall we say - less than economical with the truth on your application, gaming the system to make sure you passed their checks.  Plus, it would expose some of their acceptance criteria - which, as I said earlier, are highly confidential.

It's a valid point but the kinds of reasons why you'd be declined for credit you can't be changed e.g. CCJ, late payments, your actual address etc. They can see that you've got a mortgage and how much you have left on there, see your credit card spends / payments. So I'm not sure what could lie about on an application that would make a difference? Unless you think saying you work in IT is more preferable to lenders than in the Pharmaceutical Industry 

Urban_Bumpkin

And ultimately, remember that access to credit is a privilege, not a right.  Any lender is free to choose not to lend to you for any reason at all, just so long as it's not based on a protected characteristic (gender, sexuality, religious belief, etc.)

Of course I don't think it's a right. Lenders shouldn't be giving credit to people that don't have a proven track record of borrowing and paying back.

CliveOfIndia

Urban_Bumpkin said:

No, they don't have to give a reason.  Firstly, if they did, you could just make another application and be - shall we say - less than economical with the truth on your application, gaming the system to make sure you passed their checks.  Plus, it would expose some of their acceptance criteria - which, as I said earlier, are highly confidential.

It's a valid point but the kinds of reasons why you'd be declined for credit you can't be changed e.g. CCJ, late payments, your actual address etc. They can see that you've got a mortgage and how much you have left on there, see your credit card spends / payments. So I'm not sure what could lie about on an application that would make a difference? Unless you think saying you work in IT is more preferable to lenders than in the Pharmaceutical Industry 

You're absolutely correct, things like a CCJ, defaults, late payments etc. tend to be red flags for most lenders.  Even then, one lender might allow one recent late payment, another may have a strict policy of any late payments means instant refusal.

But the more nuanced factors tend to be things income, stability of employment, level of existing debt, monthly expenses, etc.  One lender may have a blanket policy that you must earn at least £25k a year.  Another may say your existing debt can't be more than 20% of your income.  Another may say that your disposable income after all outgoings each month must be greater than 10% of your income.  Another may say you must have been in the same job for at least 18 months.

Obviously I'm plucking examples out of the air there - I have no idea what any lender's specific criteria are.

Each lender will have their own criteria ... and different risk appetites ... and even a different target customer base.

Nasqueron

hpuse said:

Nasqueron said:

On your middle paragraph, they don't need to say but you can find out easily enough as sites like this have them - you'd know because you got the hard search on your account and the lenders aren't likely to jump between agencies for different applications

It is very difficult to get the precise reason why a lender refused credit, mainly becuase unlike human judgements - algorithms uses a list of parameters to attach risk weightage to each individual application and derive its merit from the applicant responses. 

In general

lesser risk score= better the chances of application acceptance.

Higher merit score = higher credit limit

Not sure what this comment has to do with what I quoted which was to see which lender uses which CRA for their credit check?

Regardless, if you mean the company's own internal scoring system that you cannot (and never will) see then yes I agree. If you mean the fake credit score that the CRAs show the public then no, that score plays no part in any lending 

Dawn1966

Nasqueron said:

Dawn1966 said:

Urban_Bumpkin said:

Funnily enough I've just applied for the Barclay Rewards (using their eligibility checker) and was declined. I've double checked my credit rating with Experian and have a credit rating of 999 out of 999. I'm not sure why they'd reject. 

Just apply for it via the MSE eligibility checker instead.

Applying via MSE and applying direct are immaterial if OP doesn't meet the credit requirements, using MSE instead won't result in application being approved when Barclays rejected it already

As I said originally, I was declined by Barclays, but managed to get it a week later through MSE.

Olenna

Dawn1966 said:

Nasqueron said:

Dawn1966 said:

Urban_Bumpkin said:

Funnily enough I've just applied for the Barclay Rewards (using their eligibility checker) and was declined. I've double checked my credit rating with Experian and have a credit rating of 999 out of 999. I'm not sure why they'd reject. 

Just apply for it via the MSE eligibility checker instead.

Applying via MSE and applying direct are immaterial if OP doesn't meet the credit requirements, using MSE instead won't result in application being approved when Barclays rejected it already

As I said originally, I was declined by Barclays, but managed to get it a week later through MSE.

MSE is just an application channel not a tailored product. 

It's likely that Barclays simply changed their internal applicant criteria between your two applications and this worked in your favour. 

Their recent 0.5% cashback promotion suggests that they're trying to bring in new customers to that very product. 

Nasqueron

Olenna said:

Dawn1966 said:

Nasqueron said:

Dawn1966 said:

Urban_Bumpkin said:

Funnily enough I've just applied for the Barclay Rewards (using their eligibility checker) and was declined. I've double checked my credit rating with Experian and have a credit rating of 999 out of 999. I'm not sure why they'd reject. 

Just apply for it via the MSE eligibility checker instead.

Applying via MSE and applying direct are immaterial if OP doesn't meet the credit requirements, using MSE instead won't result in application being approved when Barclays rejected it already

As I said originally, I was declined by Barclays, but managed to get it a week later through MSE.

MSE is just an application channel not a tailored product. 

It's likely that Barclays simply changed their internal applicant criteria between your two applications and this worked in your favour. 

Their recent 0.5% cashback promotion suggests that they're trying to bring in new customers to that very product. 

That or OP changed details slightly or their credit record was a bit different etc etc.

As they always say, correlation is not causation