AET & Self Employment

Akrite

Hi,

Can anyone explain to me the difference into why its looked at differently? From my view for example if i was to work for the NHS just as an example & earn £892 with UC id be ok but as for me for example i work for Evri & if i earn £892 i'm not ok in UC terms as i'm not gainfully self employed.

Have i got this right? Then if this is correct can someone explain how its not a form of discrimination? two people earn the same but treated differently.

Many Thanks

kaMelo

Being self employed you have control over how much you work. Without the MIF there would be nothing to stop someone choosing to do very little work and receive more UC.

This also stops people claiming self employment as a way to avoid looking for work.

LinLui

I can explain how it's not a form of discrimination. The protected characteristics in law are:

• age
• disability
• gender reassignment
• marriage or civil partnership (in employment only)
• pregnancy and maternity
• race
• religion or belief
• sex
• sexual orientation

Which of these are you claiming,  because employment status isn't on the list?

Akrite

What would it come under then because i am not be being treated the same as someone else earning the same amount as me. To me it doesn't make sense technically i am self employed but can only work to what i am given for example if there's only 100 parcels one day then that's all you can do so even though im self employed what i do is not under my control. The only difference from me to another person working for a company is i have to report my earnings to HMRC. So yes i see what your saying in that employment is not on that list but if you are earning the exact same as another person how can it not be discrimination as i'm being treated differently to another person because i am not technically employed by a company.

DullGreyGuy

LinLui said:

I can explain how it's not a form of discrimination. The protected characteristics in law are:

• age
• disability
• gender reassignment
• marriage or civil partnership (in employment only)
• pregnancy and maternity
• race
• religion or belief
• sex
• sexual orientation

Which of these are you claiming,  because employment status isn't on the list?

It's not a form of illegal discrimination as it's not discrimination based on a protected characteristic. It is still discrimination but allowable in the same way those on high earnings cannot claim UC

NedS

Akrite said:

What would it come under then because i am not be being treated the same as someone else earning the same amount as me. To me it doesn't make sense technically i am self employed but can only work to what i am given for example if there's only 100 parcels one day then that's all you can do so even though im self employed what i do is not under my control. The only difference from me to another person working for a company is i have to report my earnings to HMRC. So yes i see what your saying in that employment is not on that list but if you are earning the exact same as another person how can it not be discrimination as i'm being treated differently to another person because i am not technically employed by a company.

If you are earning more than £892/month from self employment, then the AET is not relevant to you as you will almost certainly be classified as gainfully self-employed. Once classified as gainfully self employed, you will not need to attend any appointments (unless in your start up year and still building your business) the AET simply would not be relevant to you.

Akrite

NedS said:

Akrite said:

What would it come under then because i am not be being treated the same as someone else earning the same amount as me. To me it doesn't make sense technically i am self employed but can only work to what i am given for example if there's only 100 parcels one day then that's all you can do so even though im self employed what i do is not under my control. The only difference from me to another person working for a company is i have to report my earnings to HMRC. So yes i see what your saying in that employment is not on that list but if you are earning the exact same as another person how can it not be discrimination as i'm being treated differently to another person because i am not technically employed by a company.

If you are earning more than £892/month from self employment, then the AET is not relevant to you as you will almost certainly be classified as gainfully self-employed. Once classified as gainfully self employed, you will not need to attend any appointments (unless in your start up year and still building your business) the AET simply would not be relevant to you.

Thanks for that this is what I thought I would count as gainfully employed but I get conflicting things said to me from the job center and they say I need to be earning £1400+ to be counted as gainfully self employed it always seems like nobody really knows what it is when I talk to people. So if I earn over the AET threshold of £892 i will be gainfully employed? 

Thanks

NedS

Akrite said:

NedS said:

Akrite said:

What would it come under then because i am not be being treated the same as someone else earning the same amount as me. To me it doesn't make sense technically i am self employed but can only work to what i am given for example if there's only 100 parcels one day then that's all you can do so even though im self employed what i do is not under my control. The only difference from me to another person working for a company is i have to report my earnings to HMRC. So yes i see what your saying in that employment is not on that list but if you are earning the exact same as another person how can it not be discrimination as i'm being treated differently to another person because i am not technically employed by a company.

If you are earning more than £892/month from self employment, then the AET is not relevant to you as you will almost certainly be classified as gainfully self-employed. Once classified as gainfully self employed, you will not need to attend any appointments (unless in your start up year and still building your business) the AET simply would not be relevant to you.

Thanks for that this is what I thought I would count as gainfully employed but I get conflicting things said to me from the job center and they say I need to be earning £1400+ to be counted as gainfully self employed it always seems like nobody really knows what it is when I talk to people. So if I earn over the AET threshold of £892 i will be gainfully employed? 

Thanks

There is no clear answer to that. There are many factors used in determining whether someone is gainfully self employed or not, and oddly the amount they earn is not one of them. But still, if you are working on a self employed basis, have good earnings and that self-employment is supporting you, then I'd say that goes a long way towards being gainfully self employed IMHO. Others may have a different view.

The issue is that you are not really in control of your business - you cannot really decide the hours you work, the jobs you accept or the price you charge, and there's not much you can do to increase your earnings (or those of the 'business') if you work as a self employed delivery driver for whomever.