Training before starting work

FlorayG

If you get a new job (hourly paid, not salaried) and are told you can't start actual work until you have read this and that and done such and such online training, then you are sent home with a laptop to do all that - should you be paid for the hours you spend doing those essentials or can you legally be expected to do it in your own time?

elsien

I would expect to be paid, however I am aware of some organisations that make people do training in their own time.

DullGreyGuy

Doing mandatory training is considered working so whilst you dont have to be directly paid for doing it it does have to be counted when calculating if you are being paid at least national minimum wage.

If its discretionary training then it's just down to your contract. 

clive0510

When I was working I was salaried and so used to get basic salary every month, plus a department bonus scheme on top. but I used to have to cover a variety of tasks in my job, and plus the company wanted me to learn new things all the while. some of it in my own time. 
I'm 63 and to have to learn new technology and then teach that to others, was too much for me. so I said thanks but no thanks, and took early retirement.

tacpot12

You are entitled to be paid. There is case law about this. You are a worker and not an employee while doing this training before being given a contract of employment. 

twopenny

Depends how much you want the job. They may legally owe you but if you make a stand they can find a way to dismiss you. You could fight that but in your own time and money with the hit you'll take on anyones desire to employ you in future.

Is this training a day, a week? How long? How in depth is this training?

I've been in similar positions but known that if I take a stand it will make my working life very difficult so I've just taken it as par of the course.

You could 'mention' it and see what they say.

I know where ongoing training in supermarkets some will take a quiet moment at work to complete the course on their phones in bits and pieces so that they don't have to take much of it home with them but they are expected to do it in their own time unpaid.

Almost every job I've had I've had extra work to do in my own time for one reason  or another.

Penguin_

Yes, we require all staff to undertake training & pay them the hours they have taken at their normal hourly rate.

FlorayG

Seems some pay and some don't, but can anyone direct me to the legal requirement? this is mandatory training

LinLui

Is this your friend on a work visa with her new job? Because if so:
(a) mandatory training "ought" to be paid - but I'll reserve judgement on that based on the sparse facts provided, because what the law says and how employers can get around what the law says are different things... and...
(b) social care employer (notoriously bad employers, and experts at manipulating the law) and worker on a visa - I wouldn't be questioning my new employer about anything unless I wanted to be out of work and with no visa. 

With respect @FlorayG, you tend to post "what does the law say" queries without providing any facts or context. It's naive to think that "the law" is that simple,  or that working life is that simple. What is the "right" answer and what is the sensible answer are seldom the same thing. 

FlorayG

LinLui said:

Is this your friend on a work visa with her new job? Because if so:
(a) mandatory training "ought" to be paid - but I'll reserve judgement on that based on the sparse facts provided, because what the law says and how employers can get around what the law says are different things... and...
(b) social care employer (notoriously bad employers, and experts at manipulating the law) and worker on a visa - I wouldn't be questioning my new employer about anything unless I wanted to be out of work and with no visa. 

With respect @FlorayG, you tend to post "what does the law say" queries without providing any facts or context. It's naive to think that "the law" is that simple,  or that working life is that simple. What is the "right" answer and what is the sensible answer are seldom the same thing. 

No, somebody else (my friend on the visa finally started a new job with a MUCH better employer and is very happy now), just told me she has to do this on her own time and I'm shocked because the company I work for always pays time for online training and I was just wondering if it's normal/required/legal.  Also, I would have thought that as she's not being paid while she does it, they should have sent it to her before her start date so she could do it while working notice at her last job and so not lose any money, because this way her first week is going to be short pay, so it doesn't seem right to me

Andy_L

FlorayG said:

Seems some pay and some don't, but can anyone direct me to the legal requirement? this is mandatory training

Mandatory in that the employer mandates it or mandatory that the law specifies it (eg H&S type training?)

You can "legally be expected to do it in your own time" if
1. it doesn't take you below NMW
2. you contract says so

Also it depends if  by "can't start actual work" you mean this training is before your contact start date or if your contact has started you just can't be "let loose" on real work until you have completed it