Please help with capital calculation and questions

samantham06

Hello,

I'm guessing it is safe to put figures on here of my income? Because you can all only see my username. I've been scammed years ago so sorry. 

I need some help please, I'm autistic and am struggling badly with choices currently and managing decisions after a series of payouts for injuries and 2 cars being written off. I should be happy but my head won't let me be. All of this has totally consumed me for months. 

In a nutshell I receive high rate pip mobility and daily living (£75 and £108 ISH) per week
I then get ESA support group with severe disability premium I get currently £230 a week as they take an amount off 
Then they pay most of my rent bar taking 2 bedroom tax off so I pay 25% 

In the last year alone I had 2 cars written off, both non fault. They paid out for these at £4600 and £4600 ISH. 
I also had 2 injury payments due to things that caused harm at £4000 and £2500 (both have been disregard until June next year - £6500 of my capital is disregarded until June next year) I hope to put it into a trust because I struggle spending so that'll reduce my capital by £450 to open the trust. But I don't really understand what I can use a trust for I was just advised to open one so it protects that money. 

I had been saving for years prior to all this because I'm always worried they will take it away and having to move home would destroy me.

I informed the DWP who then asked me for a years worth of bank statements. And sent out an a164 form, I couldn't get it back in time so they extended it until next week and the cab are helping me, but it's complex as I have 8 accounts I have to use to manage money, eg bills, spending, Xmas, car maintenance etc.i also have ADHD so it's the only way I can manage. I'm really struggling. 

In that time I was meant to use alot of my money to buy a car, but I can't. Because I also have ocd and I kid you not have spent 10 hours a day for 5 weeks trying to find one that suits all my requirements and it isn't happening. I'm actually now having to seek help from the mental health team again because of how obsessive it's all got and how I'm not functioning due to all this stress. Ridiculous isn't it! 

So I thought suddenly I'm entitled to a mobility car. But I feel awful taking it from the system as with me you can't see any things wrong and when I'm good I'm fully capable in all areas, it's just that never lasts. I feel like a fraud. Plus it it such alot of money to lose. 

Here is what it would be if I used it to get a mobility car (1)  and after is what it will be if I don't (2)
I'm trying to work out what the DWP will take off me for capital if I buy a car or if I get a mobility one, so I can work out if I can afford to live. They said they take col payments off. But do they? 
My bills are £1200 a month. 

I can't do this on my own anymore. Very grateful for help.
Today my capital is (once bills come out tomorrow - £19,600) I'm worried if if ever went over £16000 + £6500 at any point when my money went in, I don't know what they will do if so? 

1) with mobility car- 
Weekly - £108 care pip
£200 ESA? Unsure 
No servicing, no insurance.no worry. 
But lose £75 a week mobility and whatever the capital disregard is, so I'm unsure how much more expensive it works out?
Capital would be £19,600 with £6500 disregarded 
*I'd then only have £108 plus whatever the ESA is and it would be tight but less stress and maybe just about ok if I was lucky and had an electric so it's cheaper to run 

2) buying a private car-
Cost - £8000 outright
Mot/service/allowance for mechanical work - £500 a year
Insurance - £800 a year 
Tax is free
Capital would be around £11,500 with £6500 disregarded 
*How much would an £8000 used car depreciate in 2 years? Because I need to consider this too. 

As you can see, my conditions mean I look into every detail 

HillStreetBlues

I haven't much time this afternoon but will go into your post in more depth a bit later.
Do want to say you're not a fraud, OCD can be such a debilitating illness on it's own (it's why it's also called the doubting disorder), combined with autism & ADHD is horrendous.
A couple of quick questions, is your ESA income based or new/contribution? With capital when you say  £19,600 with £6500 disregarded  is that £19,600 plus £6500 or £19,600 including the £6500 disregard?

Spoonie_Turtle

samantham06 said:

Today my capital is (once bills come out tomorrow - £19,600) I'm worried if if ever went over £16000 + £6500 at any point when my money went in, I don't know what they will do if so? 

1) with mobility car- 
Weekly - £108 care pip
£200 ESA? Unsure 
No servicing, no insurance.no worry. 
But lose £75 a week mobility and whatever the capital disregard is, so I'm unsure how much more expensive it works out?
Capital would be £19,600 with £6500 disregarded 
*I'd then only have £108 plus whatever the ESA is and it would be tight but less stress and maybe just about ok if I was lucky and had an electric so it's cheaper to run 

2) buying a private car-
Cost - £8000 outright
Mot/service/allowance for mechanical work - £500 a year
Insurance - £800 a year 
Tax is free
Capital would be around £11,500 with £6500 disregarded 
*How much would an £8000 used car depreciate in 2 years? Because I need to consider this too. 

As you can see, my conditions mean I look into every detail 

Why do you say that?  Do you mean for the purposes of calculating capital, or for comparing options, or … ?
The reason I ask is if you're under the impression you have to consider it to calculate capital for benefits, then no, only actual savings and capital in property you don't live in count.  Not items you own.

I'm also confused, why do you say you'd lose the capital disregard with option 1 and not 2?  Or maybe I've misunderstood the wording.

And just to echo HSB above, you are NOT a fraud.  As you qualify for Motability then you qualify for it, full stop.  It's nobody's business whether you 'look' disabled or not, you've had to go through the stringent PIP process and they've determined that you are disabled 'enough' in such a way to qualify for higher rate mobility.  

Alice_Holt

I'd suggest separating the 2 issues into:
i) how to stay under the £16k limit,
ii) Used car or Motability car.

For (i)  keep an accurate(ish) log of your current spending and income - probably 4 weekly (as your PIP is 4 weekly).
This will show if you are adding to your savings, spending your income, or if your spending is slowly eating into capital.
Remember to accrue for periodic / annual expenditure items (insurances, etc).
Then when you have a reasonable picture of spending - you can go through it and see where you can spend extra to keep savings below £16k. For instance by buying better food, treating yourself, days out, etc, etc.
Once you understand your spending, you will have a good grip of how to adjust it to ensure you don't inadvertently exceed the capital limits. (or eat away at your capital too quickly)

As you have (if I understand correctly) about £4k to spend by June before the disregard runs out, I'd give some thought to any one off household items (new bed, sofa, white goods, etc that would make you life easier). Or you might want a holiday, or consider private therapy ??


ii)  I think your figures for car costs look low.  Breakdown cover, replacement tyres, brakes, timing belt replacement, repairs MOT, etc. An annual service is likely to be £300-400 alone.   
Depreciation - I would guess c£1,500 a year.
Personally I think a Motability vehicle is much better value, and gets you into a new reliable car with up to date safety systems (e'g automatic emergency braking).
Buying a £8k car (eight years old?) is always going to be a bit of a gamble (and it's possible it may need money spent on it)..  


 As the others have said OCD / anxiety is a horrible condition to have (and recognised by PIP), you are certainly not a fraud

samantham06

HillStreetBlues said:

I haven't much time this afternoon but will go into your post in more depth a bit later.
Do want to say you're not a fraud, OCD can be such a debilitating illness on it's own (it's why it's also called the doubting disorder), combined with autism & ADHD is horrendous.
A couple of quick questions, is your ESA income based or new/contribution? With capital when you say  £19,600 with £6500 disregarded  is that £19,600 plus £6500 or £19,600 including the £6500 disregard?

Hello, thank you so much for your time.
It's including the £6500 so £19500-6500

I also have fibromyalgia, and just all sorts 

samantham06

samantham06 said:

HillStreetBlues said:

I haven't much time this afternoon but will go into your post in more depth a bit later.
Do want to say you're not a fraud, OCD can be such a debilitating illness on it's own (it's why it's also called the doubting disorder), combined with autism & ADHD is horrendous.
A couple of quick questions, is your ESA income based or new/contribution? With capital when you say  £19,600 with £6500 disregarded  is that £19,600 plus £6500 or £19,600 including the £6500 disregard?

Hello, thank you so much for your time.
It's including the £6500 so £19500-6500

I also have fibromyalgia, and just all sorts 

But out of all of them, you're correct OCD is by far the worst. That had me in compulsions for 18 hours a day 

samantham06

Alice_Holt said:

I'd suggest separating the 2 issues into:
i) how to stay under the £16k limit,
ii) Used car or Motability car.

For (i)  keep an accurate(ish) log of your current spending and income - probably 4 weekly (as your PIP is 4 weekly).
This will show if you are adding to your savings, spending your income, or if your spending is slowly eating into capital.
Remember to accrue for periodic / annual expenditure items (insurances, etc).
Then when you have a reasonable picture of spending - you can go through it and see where you can spend extra to keep savings below £16k. For instance by buying better food, treating yourself, days out, etc, etc.
Once you understand your spending, you will have a good grip of how to adjust it to ensure you don't inadvertently exceed the capital limits. (or eat away at your capital too quickly)

As you have (if I understand correctly) about £4k to spend by June before the disregard runs out, I'd give some thought to any one off household items (new bed, sofa, white goods, etc that would make you life easier). Or you might want a holiday, or consider private therapy ??


ii)  I think your figures for car costs look low.  Breakdown cover, replacement tyres, brakes, timing belt replacement, repairs MOT, etc. An annual service is likely to be £300-400 alone.   
Depreciation - I would guess c£1,500 a year.
Personally I think a Motability vehicle is much better value, and gets you into a new reliable car with up to date safety systems (e'g automatic emergency braking).
Buying a £8k car (eight years old?) is always going to be a bit of a gamble (and it's possible it may need money spent on it)..  


 As the others have said OCD / anxiety is a horrible condition to have (and recognised by PIP), you are certainly not a fraud

I would love to take my son to Thailand because I've never been able to, I'd certainly struggle but if booked with Tu I believe they support people 
And he is very good too helping 
But I am worried how it'll look if I suddenly spend £2000 on a holiday I've only ever been able to dream of to the DWP they have said I can only spend my money on certain things or it'll be "deprivation of assets"
I wanted to send him £500 for a genuine trip he has coming up, usually I would but now I can't because they say "don't send money to family or friends"
They ring me questioning me and I can't answer their questions. It's like they are trying to catch me out. The pressure they are putting on me to send this in asap is what's making me unwell too because I can't make decisions anyway let alone under pressure and with threats they will take my money away and life 

I've never had money to spend, now I do I'm worried about spending it because of they take too much off me per week I can't afford my bills 

I worked out that if I don't buy a used car and keep it then it'll cost me £75 from my mobility per week plus roughly £30 taken off my ESA so £105x 52-£5460 a year it'll cost me to use a mobility car which is so much money compared to the other option 

samantham06

HillStreetBlues said:

I haven't much time this afternoon but will go into your post in more depth a bit later.
Do want to say you're not a fraud, OCD can be such a debilitating illness on it's own (it's why it's also called the doubting disorder), combined with autism & ADHD is horrendous.
A couple of quick questions, is your ESA income based or new/contribution? With capital when you say  £19,600 with £6500 disregarded  is that £19,600 plus £6500 or £19,600 including the £6500 disregard?

Sorry I didn't answer this. 
I'm on old style and get income related and some contributions but it's all mixed together so I don't know what's what.
I study part time with the OU I don't get any student loans. I do some permitted work when I can because having a purpose keeps me going so there will be this too soon 
All in all managing (with support) uni and permitted work is why I feel such a fraud 

Spoonie_Turtle

It's true you can't just willy-nilly spend the savings that aren't disregarded.  But the capital that is disregarded, for benefits purposes it's as if it doesn't exist for the duration of the disregard.  So you should be able to spend the disregarded capital however you like.

Thinking aloud here, given UK prices for holidays, especially if you have to travel in school holidays (I don't know how old your son is), £2,000 for a holiday to Thailand probably isn't an outrageous amount of money.  Our family holiday within England or Wales - 4 adults, 3 bedrooms - in summer costs over £2,000 now, just for accommodation.  And that's just for a location suitable for our needs because of my disability, not anywhere particularly accessible - if we needed somewhere wheelchair accessible it'd be more in the region of £3,500-4,000.

samantham06 said:

Alice_Holt said:

I'd suggest separating the 2 issues into:
i) how to stay under the £16k limit,
ii) Used car or Motability car.

For (i)  keep an accurate(ish) log of your current spending and income - probably 4 weekly (as your PIP is 4 weekly).
This will show if you are adding to your savings, spending your income, or if your spending is slowly eating into capital.
Remember to accrue for periodic / annual expenditure items (insurances, etc).
Then when you have a reasonable picture of spending - you can go through it and see where you can spend extra to keep savings below £16k. For instance by buying better food, treating yourself, days out, etc, etc.
Once you understand your spending, you will have a good grip of how to adjust it to ensure you don't inadvertently exceed the capital limits. (or eat away at your capital too quickly)

As you have (if I understand correctly) about £4k to spend by June before the disregard runs out, I'd give some thought to any one off household items (new bed, sofa, white goods, etc that would make you life easier). Or you might want a holiday, or consider private therapy ??


ii)  I think your figures for car costs look low.  Breakdown cover, replacement tyres, brakes, timing belt replacement, repairs MOT, etc. An annual service is likely to be £300-400 alone.   
Depreciation - I would guess c£1,500 a year.
Personally I think a Motability vehicle is much better value, and gets you into a new reliable car with up to date safety systems (e'g automatic emergency braking).
Buying a £8k car (eight years old?) is always going to be a bit of a gamble (and it's possible it may need money spent on it)..  


 As the others have said OCD / anxiety is a horrible condition to have (and recognised by PIP), you are certainly not a fraud 

I worked out that if I don't buy a used car and keep it then it'll cost me £75 from my mobility per week plus roughly £30 taken off my ESA so £105x 52-£5460 a year it'll cost me to use a mobility car which is so much money compared to the other option 

Why the deduction from ESA if you go for a Motability car?

samantham06

Spoonie_Turtle said:

It's true you can't just willy-nilly spend the savings that aren't disregarded.  But the capital that is disregarded, for benefits purposes it's as if it doesn't exist for the duration of the disregard.  So you should be able to spend the disregarded capital however you like.

Thinking aloud here, given UK prices for holidays, especially if you have to travel in school holidays (I don't know how old your son is), £2,000 for a holiday to Thailand probably isn't an outrageous amount of money.  Our family holiday within England or Wales - 4 adults, 3 bedrooms - in summer costs over £2,000 now, just for accommodation.  And that's just for a location suitable for our needs because of my disability, not anywhere particularly accessible - if we needed somewhere wheelchair accessible it'd be more in the region of £3,500-4,000.

samantham06 said:

Alice_Holt said:

I'd suggest separating the 2 issues into:
i) how to stay under the £16k limit,
ii) Used car or Motability car.

For (i)  keep an accurate(ish) log of your current spending and income - probably 4 weekly (as your PIP is 4 weekly).
This will show if you are adding to your savings, spending your income, or if your spending is slowly eating into capital.
Remember to accrue for periodic / annual expenditure items (insurances, etc).
Then when you have a reasonable picture of spending - you can go through it and see where you can spend extra to keep savings below £16k. For instance by buying better food, treating yourself, days out, etc, etc.
Once you understand your spending, you will have a good grip of how to adjust it to ensure you don't inadvertently exceed the capital limits. (or eat away at your capital too quickly)

As you have (if I understand correctly) about £4k to spend by June before the disregard runs out, I'd give some thought to any one off household items (new bed, sofa, white goods, etc that would make you life easier). Or you might want a holiday, or consider private therapy ??


ii)  I think your figures for car costs look low.  Breakdown cover, replacement tyres, brakes, timing belt replacement, repairs MOT, etc. An annual service is likely to be £300-400 alone.   
Depreciation - I would guess c£1,500 a year.
Personally I think a Motability vehicle is much better value, and gets you into a new reliable car with up to date safety systems (e'g automatic emergency braking).
Buying a £8k car (eight years old?) is always going to be a bit of a gamble (and it's possible it may need money spent on it)..  


 As the others have said OCD / anxiety is a horrible condition to have (and recognised by PIP), you are certainly not a fraud 

I worked out that if I don't buy a used car and keep it then it'll cost me £75 from my mobility per week plus roughly £30 taken off my ESA so £105x 52-£5460 a year it'll cost me to use a mobility car which is so much money compared to the other option 

Why the deduction from ESA if you go for a Motability car?

Because I will still have £19500 so if I'm right (which I'm probably not)
It'll be £19,500- £6500 that's disregarded, - £6000 that they disregard for everyone 
Which will leave £7000 over what I'm allowed before deductions
I was told they take £1 for every £250 over £6000 so i think it maybe £7000÷250-£28 a week I will lose from my esa, which is actually alot over the year 
My bills alone would be what I would get if I take the mobility car, but honestly I really don't think I can handle anymore stress with cars. I've now had my medication doubled and I hate this 

The £6500 injury payments ideally I'd like to put in a trust but that is a minefield in itself. But if that is removed by next June then at least I don't have to spend it on anything that is not strictly a necessity because no doubt in the future my health will decline. I've recently been diagnosed with oesteoarthritis and hashimotos 

peteuk

Because I will still have £19500 so if I'm right (which I'm probably not)
It'll be £19,500- £6500 that's disregarded, - £6000 that they disregard for everyone 

Can I just check - are you already claiming UC or pre-empting transition. 

You are allowed up to £6K in capital without this effecting means tested benefits, (Your £6000 disregard for everyone) 
Between £6K  and £16K  your UC is reduced by £4.35 for every £250 or part off you have over £6K 
Anything after this means you’re not entitled to `UC. 

Your £6500 (from injury payments which have been have been disregard until June next year) which will then form part of your captial in June 2025.

So at present you actually only have £13,000 (£19,500 minus the £6500 disregarded until June 25) capital.
Your benefits are discounted for the period that they are paid in as is any income. Equally any of the cost of living payments received if you can show you potentially still have them are disregarded from that £13K.

Im not clued up enough on how putting the £6500 into a trust and how this effects capital - I want to say its still counts but I cant say for 100%

I know this might be difficult with your OCD but try and think of it this way.
£0-£6000 Capital - no effect
£6000 - £16000 - reduction 
£16000 + - loss of entitlement.