UC overpayment

jaffa73

Hi all, hoping someone can advise.
i received a letter from DWP saying they had overpaid my UC benefit by almost £6000. This was due to them not attaching my student loan info back in Aug 23 when I uploaded (and they confirmed receipt of) all my supporting documents. I had no way of knowing they hadn’t done this or I would have raised a query of overpayment from September 2023. I asked why the info wasn’t added and received quite a rude reply saying in a nutshell that I should be grateful they hadn’t added any more financial penalties and that they didn’t need to explain why it hadn’t been added (questioning if I ever sent it, which I have proof that I did) and that they wouldn’t discuss the matter any further and have closed the line of enquiry. I’m so cross that they think it’s ok to just dump a £6000 debt on me when it is entirely their fault that I have been overpaid. I know there’s zero chance of it being wiped and I have asked for a MR. What can I do about the attitude of UC? Can I make a separate complaint about that or would it go as part of an appeal process? 

Spoonie_Turtle

Unfortunately* as part of the UC legislation all overpayments are recoverable, even if it's due to official error.

You can make a complaint if it'll make you feel better to try and do something about it.  It won't affect whether the overpayment is correct though.

(*My autocorrect initially tried to write 'infuriatingly' … quite apt!)

HillStreetBlues

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Unfortunately* as part of the UC legislation all overpayments are recoverable, even if it's due to official error.

The blanket "all overpayments are recoverable"  has been ruled unlawful.
Each case has to now be judged on it's merits
https://gcnchambers.co.uk/official-error-overpayment/

The OP's overpayment may well be recoverable as the ruling doesn't effect every overpayment, but the OP should have a read of the ruling to see if any apply.

Newcad

HillStreetBlues said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Unfortunately* as part of the UC legislation all overpayments are recoverable, even if it's due to official error.

The blanket "all overpayments are recoverable"  has been ruled unlawful.

Not quite:

That High Court Judicial Review and decision was not about the legality of the overpayment/recovery itself, all overpayments of UC are recoverable.

The Judicial Review and decision was about the DWPs blanket refusal to properly consider waiving recovery of the overpayment.

ie An overpayment of UC is still an overpayment of UC and still recoverable in all cases - but if the claimant asks for recovery to be waived then the DWP must consider that request on the merits of each case and not just refuse all waiver requests as a blanket policy.

However as stated in your link: "It is important to note that the Court has not said a waiver should be granted in all instances of ‘official error’."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jaffa73 said:

 I know there’s zero chance of it being wiped and I have asked for a MR.

In this particular case I don't think that an MR of the overpayment decision will help.
That decision is correct in law and they won't change it.

However there is another route that you can, and should, try

You should request a waiver of overpayment recovery.
On the grounds that you had clearly informed the DWP/UC about the Student Loan at the time.

The DWP must then consider that waiver request on it's own merits.

If they refuse to waive recovery then THAT is a decision that you can MR and appeal, (although the DWP will try to tell you that it isn't a decision and so you can't appeal it that is exactly what the claimant did in HillStreetBlues' linked case. They took their appeal of a refusal to waive all the way to the High Court).

HillStreetBlues

Newcad said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Unfortunately* as part of the UC legislation all overpayments are recoverable, even if it's due to official error.

The blanket "all overpayments are recoverable"  has been ruled unlawful.

Not quite:

That High Court Judicial Review and decision was not about the legality of the overpayment/recovery itself, all overpayments of UC are recoverable.

The Judicial Review and decision was about the DWPs blanket refusal to properly consider waiving recovery of the overpayment.

ie An overpayment of UC is still an overpayment of UC and still recoverable in all cases - but if the claimant asks for recovery to be waived then the DWP must consider that request on the merits of each case and not just refuse all waiver requests as a blanket policy.

However as stated in your link: "It is important to note that the Court has not said a waiver should be granted in all instances of ‘official error’."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If all debts were recoverable then the case would have been lost, clearly they won so debt wasn't recoverable. The process of getting the debt written off is via the waver asking the DWP not to recover the debt. Before this ruling they could just point to the "all debts are recoverable"  but since that ruling they can't.

Newcad

No- All UC debts are recoverable, that is stated in legislation.

However the DWP can, at their discretion. waive that recovery. They won't usually consider that unless the claimant specifically asks for a waiver to be granted.

The HC judgement does not change any of that.
The judgement simply says that the DWP must consider each and every request for a waiver on it's own merits and that they can't just have a blanket 'no waiver' policy.

The Benefits Overpayment Recover Guide (BORG), current Version 3.20 - January 2024, sets out in Chapter 8 when and how a discretionary waiver of overpayment recovery should be considered
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-overpayment-recovery-staff-guide/benefit-overpayment-recovery-guide#chapter-8

HillStreetBlues

Newcad said:

No- All UC debts are recoverable, that is stated in legislation.

However the DWP can, at their discretion. waive that recovery. They won't usually consider that unless the claimant specifically asks for a waiver to be granted.

The HC judgement does not change any of that.
The judgement simply says that the DWP must consider each and every request for a waiver on it's own merits and that they can't just have a blanket 'no waiver' policy.

The Benefits Overpayment Recover Guide (BORG), current Version 3.20 - January 2024, sets out in Chapter 8 when and how a discretionary waiver of overpayment recovery should be considered
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-overpayment-recovery-staff-guide/benefit-overpayment-recovery-guide#chapter-8

It's impossible to say all debts are recoverable when that one wasn't, it's not logical 
As that case proved at their discretion doesn't mean the they are the sole arbitrators, the court showed that when overruling the decision not to waver the debt.

peteuk

HillStreetBlues said:

Newcad said:

No- All UC debts are recoverable, that is stated in legislation.

However the DWP can, at their discretion. waive that recovery. They won't usually consider that unless the claimant specifically asks for a waiver to be granted.

The HC judgement does not change any of that.
The judgement simply says that the DWP must consider each and every request for a waiver on it's own merits and that they can't just have a blanket 'no waiver' policy.

The Benefits Overpayment Recover Guide (BORG), current Version 3.20 - January 2024, sets out in Chapter 8 when and how a discretionary waiver of overpayment recovery should be considered
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-overpayment-recovery-staff-guide/benefit-overpayment-recovery-guide#chapter-8

It's impossible to say all debts are recoverable when that one wasn't, it's not logical 
As that case proved at their discretion doesn't mean the they are the sole arbitrators, the court showed that when overruling the decision not to waver the debt.

My reading of this was - the debt was recoverable however DWP didn’t review the case and so had they done so they could have at their discretion, disregarded the debt.  To me there is a difference between using discretion and having a debt that is or isn’t recoverable. 

HillStreetBlues

peteuk said:

My reading of this was - the debt was recoverable however DWP didn’t review the case and so had they done so they could have at their discretion, disregarded the debt.  To me there is a difference between using discretion and having a debt that is or isn’t recoverable. 

The issue was the waver. The DWP just ignored the waver policy and pointed to the "all debts are recoverable" but you can't unlink them it's part of the same process.
So although UC law states "all debts are recoverable"  you can't take that in isolation, you have to consider all parts of the chain all the way to the courts.