Owner occupiers only question

Idpullthecurtain

FlorayG said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

eddddy said:

I suspect there might be 2 possibilities...

• 1) The lease doesn't allow sub-letting. So the estate agents don't want to waste everyone's time by having BTL investors viewing. (And if the lease says that, you can't really get around it.)

• 2) The seller is being fussy - e.g. because they don't like BTL investors on principle. But if the lease allows sub-letting, you don't really have to worry about that. 

I see.  Thanks.  I spoke to EO.  They say the property will be leased through an organisation, they have multiple properties in the area and want occupiers rather than renters to protect the neighborhood.

So I imagine they could would/could include conditions in the lease?  So then my question to EO would be does the lease allows sub-letting?

What? What on earth do they mean by that? People who rent are usually criminals? That's appalling

They can stipulate what they like?
Its not the central point here.

silvercar

FlorayG said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

eddddy said:

I suspect there might be 2 possibilities...

• 1) The lease doesn't allow sub-letting. So the estate agents don't want to waste everyone's time by having BTL investors viewing. (And if the lease says that, you can't really get around it.)

• 2) The seller is being fussy - e.g. because they don't like BTL investors on principle. But if the lease allows sub-letting, you don't really have to worry about that. 

I see.  Thanks.  I spoke to EO.  They say the property will be leased through an organisation, they have multiple properties in the area and want occupiers rather than renters to protect the neighborhood.

So I imagine they could would/could include conditions in the lease?  So then my question to EO would be does the lease allows sub-letting?

What? What on earth do they mean by that? People who rent are usually criminals? That's appalling

It means that owner occupiers have more invested in the property, more likely to keep say the outside in good condition, more likely to become involved in the community, more likely to spend money on the upkeep of their property.  The average length of stay for an owner occupier is many times that of a renter. No one is suggesting renters are usually criminals. 

sheramber

Idpullthecurtain said:

RAS said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

RAS said:

Buy copies of the lease from the Land Registry. You're probably going to need to fill in the form for the full lease, so it will take time.

If it says that the property cannot be sub-let or can only be sub-let with express permission, then doing anything other than living in it will cause trouble. And if it restricts what you can do inside the flat during renovations, you need to know.

How'd they find out? The other occupiers know who you are and see someone else going into the flat and report to the freeholder or management company. The management company are doing some work and discover an unexpected occupant. You have a run in with your tenant and they report you. Someone else in the block identifies the flat from lettings listing. Could go on.

Bit of an issue if you have a tenant who you can't shift and and the management company start action to enforce the lease?

If you understand this much about leasehold, it might be a good idea to learn a lot more about being a landlord before you go further. Even if you let via an agent, you are also legally liable for any failures, fines and penalties.

Thanks for this info.  Its a house not a flat, I should have mentioned.
This sounds like it might be a headache.

You still need a copy of the lease, and to understand what restrictions there are on what you can do. You may only be able to change the external appearance, garden, or build any extension or structure with permission. There's a recent thread about someone told to remove his large shed, others about inability to install garden fences.

And there may be restrictions as part of the planning application that restrict usage.

Yes, I understand that.  Id definitely get the lease.

I havent even viewed property yet.  Thats scheduled for today.  Its early stages.

Im still at the stage of considering if I should even view it it means I may be forced to live in property when I may not want to.

You are not forced to live in it.You can do what others do when they coin ‘t want to live somewhere any longer- sell it.

Bookworm105

Idpullthecurtain said:

user1977 said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

user1977 said:

What exactly does the EA mean by "only available"? Is there some sort of restriction in the lease?

Could the lease be restricted in some way to prevent me renting?

Yes, it could. But nobody knows for sure without seeing the lease. It's also possible they are merely restricting the initial marketing to a particular sector.

Yes I believe they are restricting the initial marketing.  So would that mean I wouldnt be restricted?

we can't read the lease from here so no one can answer your question 

Idpullthecurtain

sheramber said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

RAS said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

RAS said:

Buy copies of the lease from the Land Registry. You're probably going to need to fill in the form for the full lease, so it will take time.

If it says that the property cannot be sub-let or can only be sub-let with express permission, then doing anything other than living in it will cause trouble. And if it restricts what you can do inside the flat during renovations, you need to know.

How'd they find out? The other occupiers know who you are and see someone else going into the flat and report to the freeholder or management company. The management company are doing some work and discover an unexpected occupant. You have a run in with your tenant and they report you. Someone else in the block identifies the flat from lettings listing. Could go on.

Bit of an issue if you have a tenant who you can't shift and and the management company start action to enforce the lease?

If you understand this much about leasehold, it might be a good idea to learn a lot more about being a landlord before you go further. Even if you let via an agent, you are also legally liable for any failures, fines and penalties.

Thanks for this info.  Its a house not a flat, I should have mentioned.
This sounds like it might be a headache.

You still need a copy of the lease, and to understand what restrictions there are on what you can do. You may only be able to change the external appearance, garden, or build any extension or structure with permission. There's a recent thread about someone told to remove his large shed, others about inability to install garden fences.

And there may be restrictions as part of the planning application that restrict usage.

Yes, I understand that.  Id definitely get the lease.

I havent even viewed property yet.  Thats scheduled for today.  Its early stages.

Im still at the stage of considering if I should even view it it means I may be forced to live in property when I may not want to.

You are not forced to live in it.You can do what others do when they coin ‘t want to live somewhere any longer- sell it.

you are missing the point.

Idpullthecurtain

Bookworm105 said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

user1977 said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

user1977 said:

What exactly does the EA mean by "only available"? Is there some sort of restriction in the lease?

Could the lease be restricted in some way to prevent me renting?

Yes, it could. But nobody knows for sure without seeing the lease. It's also possible they are merely restricting the initial marketing to a particular sector.

Yes I believe they are restricting the initial marketing.  So would that mean I wouldnt be restricted?

we can't read the lease from here so no one can answer your question 

Thanks for your helpful response.

I wasnt expecting anyone to have read it.

Bookworm105

Idpullthecurtain said:

Bookworm105 said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

user1977 said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

user1977 said:

What exactly does the EA mean by "only available"? Is there some sort of restriction in the lease?

Could the lease be restricted in some way to prevent me renting?

Yes, it could. But nobody knows for sure without seeing the lease. It's also possible they are merely restricting the initial marketing to a particular sector.

Yes I believe they are restricting the initial marketing.  So would that mean I wouldnt be restricted?

we can't read the lease from here so no one can answer your question 

Thanks for your helpful response.

I wasnt expecting anyone to have read it.

but the fact remains your question can only be answered by reading what it says as it would be the other leaseholders who may (or may not) seek to enforce the lease if you breach it by sub-letting when it says you cannot 

Idpullthecurtain

Bookworm105 said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

Bookworm105 said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

user1977 said:

Idpullthecurtain said:

user1977 said:

What exactly does the EA mean by "only available"? Is there some sort of restriction in the lease?

Could the lease be restricted in some way to prevent me renting?

Yes, it could. But nobody knows for sure without seeing the lease. It's also possible they are merely restricting the initial marketing to a particular sector.

Yes I believe they are restricting the initial marketing.  So would that mean I wouldnt be restricted?

we can't read the lease from here so no one can answer your question 

Thanks for your helpful response.

I wasnt expecting anyone to have read it.

but the fact remains your question can only be answered by reading what it says as it would be the other leaseholders who may (or may not) seek to enforce the lease if you breach it by sub-letting when it says you cannot 

Not at all. 

If all you've got to contribute is patronising response, might as well not bother and move on.

👍

theartfullodger

Idpullthecurtain said:

theartfullodger said:

Ask for copies of lease and deeds 
 (Or buy from gov UK land registry)

Ask neighbours or postman why may know reality.

Government may well change law to permit renting 

OK I will.
Have you ever heard of that before?

Heard of what ??(ie which of the many topics covered in this thread...)

Grumpy_chap

Idpullthecurtain said:

I see.  Thanks.  I spoke to EO.  They say the property will be leased through an organisation, they have multiple properties in the area and want occupiers rather than renters to protect the neighborhood.

So I imagine they could would/could include conditions in the lease?  So then my question to EO would be does the lease allows sub-letting?

I would not ask the EA questions around this.  Partly because they may not know the honest answer.  Partly because they may interpret questioning in this vein as an indicator that you are really interested in the property as BTL / holiday let not owner-occupier.

The best thing would be to view the property, presenting as potential owner occupier and then read the official documents (lease) to understand any restrictions imposed by the lease and / or any covenants applicable to the property.

I am not sure what is meant by the phrase "to protect the neighbourhood".
Is the property in a tourist area where holiday homes / rentals are having an impact on the availability for local residents?