Employee Off Sick but can’t/won’t produce Sick note - Strange circumstances

Hoenir

As others have said. Being a small business with no internal HR expertise. It's worth employing the services of a third party to handle such matters. Prevents the Company doing or saying something they shouldn't. 

LinLui

LightFlare said:

I think the company is being taken for a mug

They need professional guidance to resolve which as already mentioned will be cheaper in the long run.

I agree. And I'd add that WhatsApp is not an appropriate method of formal communications which might land in a court. The size of the company is irrelevant. After 10+ years in business they should have a much better grasp of basic employment methods. It doesn't take HR to do that - just a basuc understanding of the role and responsibilities of being an employer. Had the employer done so they wouldn't be in this situation, because there is actually very little complicated about it. 

With respect,  they are obviously nice people who care about their employees,  and that is brilliant. But you can be that and professional at the same time,  and they aren't being professional. They need to up their game for the sake of everyone. This sort of scenario isn't fair on anyone. 

RAS

The company needs proper HR advice backed by an employment lawyer.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Jo Blogg's not been listed as living at his mum's house. Nor bizarre about him not being on the rent book, particularly if mum inherited the tenancy. It's possible mum was claiming CT reductions and means-tested benefits but Jo wasn't.  

He may just have been one of those people who preferred for some reason not to be visible on public records. Or who became invisible and then struggled to get the necessary paperwork. Which may now explains the odd recent living arrangements. 

He may also gave first been employed before right to work legislation became law.

But given the current situation, the firm needs legal advice. And a few formal HR policies?

Flugelhorn

RAS said:

The company needs proper HR advice backed by an employment lawyer.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Jo Blogg's not been listed as living at his mum's house. Nor bizarre about him not being on the rent book, particularly if mum inherited the tenancy. It's possible mum was claiming CT reductions and means-tested benefits but Jo wasn't.  

He may just have been one of those people who preferred for some reason not to be visible on public records. Or who became invisible and then struggled to get the necessary paperwork. Which may now explains the odd recent living arrangements. 

He may also gave first been employed before right to work legislation became law.

But given the current situation, the firm needs legal advice. And a few formal HR policies?

plus checking up about paying for people's home to work transport etc and the tax status etc - this should become apparent if they update their policies

lincroft1710

As Joe was not a co-tenant of his mother's house, he has no liability for Council Tax. However being resident there meant his mother could not apply for the 25% single person discount.


There is something very strange about the whole set up, wages paid into a cousin's bank account, moving 60 miles away, company paying his train fare, company paying SSP without a fit note being produced

saajan_12

No links because you can research the same things I can and I don't love when posters request a specific style of advice from a free forum. However I do have a few comments / suggestions which I think are CONSTRUCTIVE as things the company needs to look into, not just what they could have done / what I would have done. 

FrankFalcon said:

Joe Bloggs asked the company if it would pay his train fare every week (from his old friends house 60 miles away to the factory) and the company agreed… at £120 pounds per week. Basically, the company gave Joe Bloggs £120 cash every Friday and he bought next weeks weekly train ticket with it and gave the company the receipt.

IF this is just transport to the main place of work, then thats not a business expense but part of Joe's remuneration, which is taxable - is the company declaring it on PAYE, etc? If not, they need to start. 

FrankFalcon said:

So, as it stands the company does not know what to do next. If there was a sick note then the company could formally process it as normal. The company does not know if this sick note will ever arrive. The company does not even know if the illness is genuine. After looking at the whole scenario surrounding Joe Bloggs, the company suspects that Joe Bloggs probably isn’t even listed with a doctor. 

I suggest giving Joe a timeframe for this (in line with the policy that the company also needs to come up with and disseminate). If its still not forthcoming then go through the dismissal procedure (taking paid advice). 

FrankFalcon

Hi Everybody

Thank you for all your constructive comments.  I totally take on board what you are all saying.  I've left it a few days to really think about what should be done and I now agree that the company needs to seek proper legal advice from a HR professional.  In relation to the comments about the train fare I will be honest and say that there was no formal agreement in place.  Tax was never paid on the Train Fare etc.  The company just didn't want to kick the man when he was down (after losing his mother and his home).  I know the company has been a little naïve giving him the train fare but that was honestly the reason the company gave him the train fare.  Obviously, the company couldn't have known how it would have turned out.  On the subject of whether Joe had a right to work in the UK he does.  The company checked that years ago.  Also, a couple of the other employees know members of Joes family too who have always lived in the same area of North UK.  As of today (5 days after the original post) the company messaged Joe yesterday telling him the situation could not continue.  Joe Replied 'I have not got a Doctor anymore.  I am trying to see one on Wednesday to get a sick note.  I have never been on the sick before and didn't know what I had to do'.  On this note, I honestly thank you all for offering your advice.  Despite some commenting that we shouldn't be listening to advice on a forum I can assure you we have learned a lot and this has prompted the company to now seek professional advice.  One more question please...Can anybody suggest such a company or individual who can assist? The company doesn't want to get into bed with a huge HR company that will cost thousands, to resolve issues that crop up maybe once every 5 years.  
Thank you all

LinLui

Local Chambers of Commerce often have recommendations,  but employers can also use ACAS - although obviously for advice rather than ongoing support.