EV Charger Installation & Tariff

sabelu

BG have had an offer on the above including installation but its over subscribed and they wont honour the offer. Does anyone know of any other energy provider doing a similar deal please?

Netexporter

Octopus install chargers and have some of the best EV tariffs.

Reed_Richards

I am leading a one-man crusade against EV chargers.  They are very expensive at around £1000 and I don't think many people actually need one if they simply get a charger that plugs in to a standard 3-pin socket at around £100 (a "granny charger").  Now an expensive wallbox charger will charge about 3 times faster than a granny charger but unless you drive 100 or more miles per day every weekday then you won't need to add a lot of charge overnight so you won't need a fast charger.  That's unless you have two EVs and you don't mind getting up in the middle of the night to swap them over.   

FreeBear

Reed_Richards said:

I am leading a one-man crusade against EV chargers.  They are very expensive at around £1000 and I don't think many people actually need one

The chargers themselves start at around £350 (£230 for an OpenEVSE kit). It is the installation costs that pushes the price up to £1000-1200.

Not many people will have a suitable outdoor 13A socket - Having one installed is likely to cost £300 if the consumer unit is suitable. Running a granny charger from an extension lead is not a good idea.

And I agree, few people actually need an EV charger. Sis occasionally pops over to use mine to charge her PHEV thinking it will be quicker than her granny charger (it isn't. The car still only charges at ~3.5kW). Have advised her to get an outside socket.

Reed_Richards

Thanks @FreeBear, that OpenEVSE kit does look quite tempting.  And the point about the availability of an outside socket is fair enough.  But my point is that people have been conditioned into thinking "Have EV, must get wallbox charger" and that just isn't true.  

MattMattMattUK

Reed_Richards said:

I am leading a one-man crusade against EV chargers.  They are very expensive at around £1000 and I don't think many people actually need one if they simply get a charger that plugs in to a standard 3-pin socket at around £100 (a "granny charger").  Now an expensive wallbox charger will charge about 3 times faster than a granny charger but unless you drive 100 or more miles per day every weekday then you won't need to add a lot of charge overnight so you won't need a fast charger.  That's unless you have two EVs and you don't mind getting up in the middle of the night to swap them over.   

Reed_Richards said:

Thanks @FreeBear, that OpenEVSE kit does look quite tempting.  And the point about the availability of an outside socket is fair enough.  But my point is that people have been conditioned into thinking "Have EV, must get wallbox charger" and that just isn't true.  

Whilst I agree for some, it does depend on usage. 2.8kW is about the maximum possible over a granny charger, in theory it could go up to 3.1 but it rarely does with cable losses and it is generally not a good idea to run a normal domestic socket at max supply for an extended period anyway.

2.8kW over six hours is 16.8kWh (six hours seems to the the standard low rate for the EV tariff). In a Tesla Model 3 LR that is 69.4 miles per day, for an MG ZS that is about 55 miles and a BMW iX, Mercedes EQ A, B or E is 50 ish miles (all combined figures, at the lower end of real world). That is likely fine for most people, though those with a heavy foot could easily halve those mileage numbers. I think the issue is for some people is that why they might not drive at that level on average, there can can be times when they might drive a full charge one day and then need to drive more than 50 miles the next day. Now of course if that is only occasional then fast charging would make more sense, but there is also a convenience factor involved. 

I would say that many people do not need to pay £1,000 for an EV charger, most of them can be had wholesale for £300-500 and a local electrician will normally install one for £150-200 provided the consumer unit can accommodate it. Of course if one goes via a national installer or energy supplier then the £1,000 cost kicks in even before additional costs such as potentially needing an upgraded consumer unit kick in, and they all charge additional amounts for longer cable runs and other things etc. 

MeteredOut

I can regularly get 10+ hours (when needed) at cheap rate with Octopus IOG smart charging slots. With the granny charger running at 10A, the heat from the socket has not concerned me.

Netexporter

Another use-case for a wallbox might be if you are on a tariff like Agile Octopus, where you can cram in three times more electricity you are being paid to use during a plunge price period.

born_again

Netexporter said:

Another use-case for a wallbox might be if you are on a tariff like Agile Octopus, where you can cram in three times more electricity you are being paid to use during a plunge price period.

Or Intelligent Octopus & the daytime charges.

While I do not disagree with @Reed_Richards That granny chargers can be cheaper for many. 
It needs to be tempered to warn people to fit a proper dedicated 32Amp supply for them.

Using a granny charger to charge an electric vehicle (EV) can be a fire risk, especially if the charger is used excessively or if the home has outdated wiring. Granny chargers, which provide a 2kW output, operate similarly to charging a phone or computer at home and are theoretically free. However, 13A sockets are not designed to handle the power draw of an EV for extended periods, which can cause the system to overheat and potentially lead to a fire. This is especially true if the home has outdated wiring.


Many manufactures no longer supply these & Kia/Hyundai when they did added this was for EMERGANCY use only.

End of the day a granny charger is just the same as you phone charger or scooter/e-bike chargers & how many times do you see reports of fires in homes due to these. Especially when they are being used overnight 👍

Reed_Richards

born_again said:

Using a granny charger to charge an electric vehicle (EV) can be a fire risk, especially if the charger is used excessively or if the home has outdated wiring. Granny chargers, which provide a 2kW output, operate similarly to charging a phone or computer at home and are theoretically free. However, 13A sockets are not designed to handle the power draw of an EV for extended periods, which can cause the system to overheat and potentially lead to a fire. This is especially true if the home has outdated wiring.

This crops up time and time again.  A house with outdated wiring could present a fire risk, EV charger or no.  My granny charger provides a 2.35 kW output and that equates to less than 13 amps.  It is sometime asserted that "13A sockets are not designed to handle the power draw of an EV for extended periods" but I have never seen this backed up by any actual evidence or regulations (provided what is meant by "the draw of an EV" is indeed less than 13 A).   

BarelySentientAI

born_again said:

However, 13A sockets are not designed to handle the power draw of an EV for extended periods, which can cause the system to overheat and potentially lead to a fire. This is especially true if the home has outdated wiring.

End of the day a granny charger is just the same as you phone charger or scooter/e-bike chargers & how many times do you see reports of fires in homes due to these. Especially when they are being used overnight.

13A sockets are designed to handle the power draw of an EV indefinitely, and the test detailed in the British Standard requires demonstration that they can withstand 8 hours continuously drawing significantly more than an EV takes.

Fires caused by charging phones or e-bikes are almost exclusively faults in the charger itself or in the batteries.  They are almost never a problem in the socket.