Outside Marked Bay - PCM Story so far

Jimpossible

Hi all,

Car parks now have full time wardens preying on users, be careful out there people. Many such cases I've heard from people I've met and I've referred people to this very helpful site full of real life heroes. Retailers at these private car parks are losing business.

This is the story so far with PCM.

I am the registered keeper of a vehicle that received a PCN from parking control management for “parked outside the confines of a marked bay”. Parking charge to keeper. Received within 14 days of “offence”

Driver has images of warden taking photo of them whilst in the vehicle in an unmarked car. As driver feared for their safety (didn’t know it was a parking warden).

First letter and all images uploaded as evidence:

In some of these photos the driver can be seen in the vehicle.

Please double check, but I cannot see any markings visible. It possible there are but its not visible in the photos so is that what a court will decide on? Also there is building works rendering space to the left of the vehicle unusable (concrete blocks taking up space and would block tyres).

Keeper appealed as follows with the kind help of b789:

All those photos show is a vehicle in a bay with no ground markings taken over the span of less than a minute.

The NtK is not PoFA compliant. It fails on 9(2)(e)(i) and (ii) in that there is no invitation (nor any synonym of the word) for the keeper to pay the charge and it also fails to tell the keeper to pass the NtK to the driver.

The NtK also fails PoFA on 9(2)(a) in that it does not specify a period of parking. It simply specifies a moment in time.

On that basis, the keeper cannot be liable for the charge, only the driver whose identity is unknown to PCM. Additionally, there is no evidence of any contravention as the vehicle appears to be within a bay. There are no markings to indicate that the location is not a bay or that it is an area that is not available for parking.

The evidence does not show that the driver did not consider any signage as it is evident that the driver is still in the vehicle over the period of less than a minute. So it breaches the new joint CoP at 2.24, 5.1, 7.3c and Annex B.

 

Rejection letter received:

 Now I do not know if its worth to appeal to IAS as doing research on here and FTLA site leads me to believe it will be 100% rejected.

I do believe this is a 100% win case as there is no markings visible on the evidence photos.

Could I get some advice on the parking invoice please and the IAS appeal? Thank you.

Grizebeck

Quoting Elliot vs Locke is a favourite of IPC firm and IAS assessors ,odd that
completely irrelevant to

LDast

@Jimpossible, you’ve already had all the advice you need over on FTLA. You have been told that you have a good case but appealing to the  not going to do it for you. You can either give it a go if you are so inclined but don’t come back telling us it has been rejected after all the effort you put into it.

The ultimate dispute resolution service is  the county court where this is most likely to be a “winning case”.

Jimpossible

LDast said:

@Jimpossible, you’ve already had all the advice you need over on FTLA. You have been told that you have a good case but appealing to the  not going to do it for you. You can either give it a go if you are so inclined but don’t come back telling us it has been rejected after all the effort you put into it.

The ultimate dispute resolution service is  the county court where this is most likely to be a “winning case”.

Not that I didn't trust the advice I given as I have followed it. I trust the IAS will reject. Just wanted more opinions, in case someone has experienced a marked bay case where no markings are visible in the evidence photos on this forum too.

Coupon-mad

I'd try this one to the IAS with a really simple appeal point that the car was not parked outside of a marked bay. They were fully within it, going by the white lines either side.

I think that PCM will drop it.

No harm in trying. No paying if you lose.

Jimpossible

Coupon-mad said:

I'd try this one to the IAS with a really simple appeal point that the car was not parked outside of a marked bay. They were fully within it, going by the white lines either side.

I think that PCM will drop it.

No harm in trying. No paying if you lose.

I went with the other recommendations before I saw your post and didn't bother doing the IAS. Should have tried anyway I agree.

I am getting debt letters now. Will just say vehicle is parked within bay as seen by evidence if it ever gets to court.

Coupon-mad

Ignore the threatograms.

Come back when you get a Gladstones LBC or court claim. Keep your address updated with them if you move.  That is all.