Electric water heating

BarelySentientAI

mrsyardbroom said:

I have an electric shower and it only heats the water I use. That is heated at the day rate but I don't stay in the shower long. I have Googled hot water cylinders but some cost a £100 while others cost over £2000. I have no idea what I'm looking at. I'm not keen to ask a plumber without any understanding. I could end up spending a lot of money unnecessarily. My current cylinder is insulated with a wrap around jacket.

Spending any money in your situation is likely to be unnecessary.

You are not paying to heat a large cylinder of hot water each night.  You are paying to heat the little bit of cold water that has been put in after you used some of the hot (which won't change at all with anything new) and the little bit of heat that escapes into your airing cupboard (which is almost nothing if it is well insulated).

Improving insulation would be the biggest difference to you in cost.

Adding a mechanical timer would seem to add the convenience at lowest extra cost.

You seem to be trying to get us to talk you into massive changes at a cost of thousands of pounds.  I don't think you need that at all.

Section62

mrsyardbroom said:

BarelySentientAI I'm not sure what it is you don't understand. I'm paying to heat a large cylinder of water overnight, when I only need a relatively small amount of water in the day. At the moment I have to remember to switch the immersion heater on every night when the night rate starts, and switch it off again in the morning. I can't adjust the water temperature. It's set to very hot and that's it. There must be a more modern cylinder that would be smaller, have an integrated adjustable heater, and a timer. The old cylinder is nearly 50 years old. It's still working but for how long?

A timer can be added to any immersion heater, you don't need a new cylinder to do that.

Likewise, immersion heaters (even 50 years ago) usually had an adjustable thermostat, albeit not intended to be adjusted on a regular basis.  If the immersion heater thermostat isn't adjustable then usually they can be replaced with one that can.

Are you in a hard or soft water area?  If the cylinder really is 50 years old then it might be end-of-life, particularly if you have hard water - but I'd be a bit surprised if it really was that old.

Bear in mind you aren't heating the whole cylinder of water every night - the immersion heater will only be using enough energy to replace the hot water you've used, plus the heat loss from the cylinder since the last heating cycle.  If you don't use much hot water then it is the heat loss which is the main factor in running costs - which as FreeBear points out, could be somewhere between 1 and 4 kWh per day.

FreeBear

BarelySentientAI said: Improving insulation would be the biggest difference to you in cost.

Adding a mechanical timer would seem to add the convenience at lowest extra cost.

You seem to be trying to get us to talk you into massive changes at a cost of thousands of pounds.  I don't think you need that at all.

Improving the insulation around an old tank is not always easy - Often, there is insufficient space to work, or even get an extra jacket on.

A mechanical timer along with a thermostat would be a cheap upgrade and probably pay for itself within a year.

Finally, I agree - Little point in spending huge sums of money that will take 15+ years to see any return on investment.

mrsyardbroom

BarelySentientAI said:

mrsyardbroom said:

I have an electric shower and it only heats the water I use. That is heated at the day rate but I don't stay in the shower long. I have Googled hot water cylinders but some cost a £100 while others cost over £2000. I have no idea what I'm looking at. I'm not keen to ask a plumber without any understanding. I could end up spending a lot of money unnecessarily. My current cylinder is insulated with a wrap around jacket.

Spending any money in your situation is likely to be unnecessary.

You are not paying to heat a large cylinder of hot water each night.  You are paying to heat the little bit of cold water that has been put in after you used some of the hot (which won't change at all with anything new) and the little bit of heat that escapes into your airing cupboard (which is almost nothing if it is well insulated).

Improving insulation would be the biggest difference to you in cost.

Adding a mechanical timer would seem to add the convenience at lowest extra cost.

You seem to be trying to get us to talk you into massive changes at a cost of thousands of pounds.  I don't think you need that at all.

The point is I don't know if a new cylinder would cost £100 or £2000. That's why I came on here first. I want to research it rather than ask a plumber if I need a new cylinder and what sort to get. I'm not looking at massive changes, but something with an automatic timer would help. I have no idea if one of those can be fitted to my current system or not. I don't even know if I would need a plumber or an electrician for that. I'm not getting any younger and there are times when I forget to put the heater on and I have to heat the water in the day. There are times when I forget to turn the heater off and the water is heating all day. Also there is the worry that with such an old system it could fail at any time. According to the results from Google a cylinder lasts up to 10 years and 15 years if you're lucky. Mine is nearly 50 years old. I'm assuming you're young and you have some knowledge about plumbing. If that's the case then you'll realise when you get older that sometimes you need to ask for some help.

mrsyardbroom

Section62 said:

mrsyardbroom said:

BarelySentientAI I'm not sure what it is you don't understand. I'm paying to heat a large cylinder of water overnight, when I only need a relatively small amount of water in the day. At the moment I have to remember to switch the immersion heater on every night when the night rate starts, and switch it off again in the morning. I can't adjust the water temperature. It's set to very hot and that's it. There must be a more modern cylinder that would be smaller, have an integrated adjustable heater, and a timer. The old cylinder is nearly 50 years old. It's still working but for how long?

A timer can be added to any immersion heater, you don't need a new cylinder to do that.

Likewise, immersion heaters (even 50 years ago) usually had an adjustable thermostat, albeit not intended to be adjusted on a regular basis.  If the immersion heater thermostat isn't adjustable then usually they can be replaced with one that can.

Are you in a hard or soft water area?  If the cylinder really is 50 years old then it might be end-of-life, particularly if you have hard water - but I'd be a bit surprised if it really was that old.

Bear in mind you aren't heating the whole cylinder of water every night - the immersion heater will only be using enough energy to replace the hot water you've used, plus the heat loss from the cylinder since the last heating cycle.  If you don't use much hot water then it is the heat loss which is the main factor in running costs - which as FreeBear points out, could be somewhere between 1 and 4 kWh per day.

We moved into this house in 1976. We had the cylinder and immersion heater installed before we moved in. That is nearly 50 years ago. It hasn't been replaced since then. Before my husband died we had a new bathroom installed but apart from that most of the plumbing is original. I'm in a soft water area. It would be nice to be able to adjust the water temperature. The only other house I've been in that has plumbing as old as this is a local stately home.

BarelySentientAI

Low end prices:

New cylinder, assuming its vented (which it sounds like from your comments), £250 for a small one.

Immersion & thermostat - £40

Timer - £15

FreeBear

mrsyardbroom said:

BarelySentientAI said:

mrsyardbroom said:

I have an electric shower and it only heats the water I use. That is heated at the day rate but I don't stay in the shower long. I have Googled hot water cylinders but some cost a £100 while others cost over £2000. I have no idea what I'm looking at. I'm not keen to ask a plumber without any understanding. I could end up spending a lot of money unnecessarily. My current cylinder is insulated with a wrap around jacket.

Spending any money in your situation is likely to be unnecessary.

You are not paying to heat a large cylinder of hot water each night.  You are paying to heat the little bit of cold water that has been put in after you used some of the hot (which won't change at all with anything new) and the little bit of heat that escapes into your airing cupboard (which is almost nothing if it is well insulated).

Improving insulation would be the biggest difference to you in cost.

Adding a mechanical timer would seem to add the convenience at lowest extra cost.

You seem to be trying to get us to talk you into massive changes at a cost of thousands of pounds.  I don't think you need that at all.

The point is I don't know if a new cylinder would cost £100 or £2000. That's why I came on here first. I want to research it rather than ask a plumber if I need a new cylinder and what sort to get. I'm not looking at massive changes, but something with an automatic timer would help. I have no idea if one of those can be fitted to my current system or not. I don't even know if I would need a plumber or an electrician for that. I'm not getting any younger and there are times when I forget to put the heater on and I have to heat the water in the day. There are times when I forget to turn the heater off and the water is heating all day. Also there is the worry that with such an old system it could fail at any time. According to the results from Google a cylinder lasts up to 10 years and 15 years if you're lucky. Mine is nearly 50 years old.

My old copper cylinder was installed sometime in the early 80s. When I scrapped it last year, it was still in good working order (no leaks), although I couldn't comment on the immersion heater (never used it). Despite being in a hard water area, there was very little scale inside. On that basis, i would take Google's estimates with a sizable dose of salt.

An electrician would be able to fit a thermostat & timer to your existing system - Some plumbers will do small electrical works, a few shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a plug.

mrsyardbroom

Thank you. A smaller cylinder would give me more room in the airing cupboard, and a timer would be a boon. I don't even know how much I'm paying for electricity at the moment as my energy supplier can't work out the bill.

Albermarle

BarelySentientAI said:

Low end prices:

New cylinder, assuming its vented (which it sounds like from your comments), £250 for a small one.

Immersion & thermostat - £40

Timer - £15

Then the cost of a plumber - £250 ?

mrsyardbroom

Does anyone know what is the smallest vented cylinder you can get? I only need about 30 litres a day. The ones I've seen are much bigger than that.