Martin's suggestion for winter fuel allowance

Martyn_H

I would consider keeping the WFA for pensioners relying on just the state pension.

Ildhund

Sorry - isn't that exactly what the Chancellor said? It's only those who don't rely on just the state pension who are affected. The 'OAPs dying of cold next winter' are a small proportion of those who have income higher than the state pension as topped up by Pension Credit. How many are there, I wonder?

wrf12345

If you have the full state pension then you can't claim pension tax credit which you need to do to get WFA, if you have savings and just the state pension you can't claim any other benefits, which you may need to do to get WFA. No sane person would hand over their savings to the energy companies or, indeed, for council tax, so available funds for heating are going to be limited, this dependence on WFA thus means the difference between heating and no heating, it would at least allow the gas to run for a few hours a day for the coldest months of year. Most pensioners in this position will find a couple of grand taken off them by council tax, energy standing charges, TV licence etc, which is a crazy amount on circa 12k pension income. One 78 year old man is already on hunger over WFA (and people breaking into the country) so maybe that is the only solution...

born_again

Ildhund said:

TheBanker said:

I think the state pension and pension credit should be set at levels that support a basic standard of living, including being able to heat your home. 

So you might suggest that the home's EPC rating should be taken into account when setting the amount of Pension Credit? How else would you assess the cost of heating for the enormous spectrum of housing types pensioners live in?

Except many houses do not have a EPC. Given that you have to pay for one. Why would you when you have no intention of moving?

Checked our's to see if we could get help, there is not one & checking post code the vast majority have expired. So that is a non starter.. 🤷‍♀️

Spoonie_Turtle

Ildhund said:

Sorry - isn't that exactly what the Chancellor said? It's only those who don't rely on just the state pension who are affected. The 'OAPs dying of cold next winter' are a small proportion of those who have income higher than the state pension as topped up by Pension Credit. How many are there, I wonder?

No, the full new State Pension is a few pounds above the Pension Credit threshold.

horsewithnoname

SAC2334 said:

spot1034 said:

Swipe said:

Since the announcement of the October cap increase, the government is under increasing pressure over this decision. I really wouldn't be surprised if this is overturned and the WFA reinstated. Even the Guardian newspaper has turned on them over this.

They would have been well aware that this was coming though. It was hardly a secret that the price cap was set to increase significantly - in fact, I'd suggest it might have been a factor in Rishi Sunak calling the election in July.

I suppose one thing they could do is reinstate it but make it taxable like the state pension itself, which would at least see some of the money being clawed back from the better off. 

In the earlier part of the three month cycle the October price cap was being predicted to be going down not up so I m not sure that anyone was "well aware " what it was going to be . Personally I can t see Labour back tracking on this and going for M.L idea of council tax bands . D for intance are quite wealthy properties in my area . I m on basic pension of £8952  a year but have savings I need to keep to pay for private eye operations in the future and can t claim PC . Glad to see that train drivers on an average of £81000 a year got a rise which they really need badly more than me .

Don’t blame the train drivers. The rich have got richer and the poor have got poorer. Blame the government that allow these mega rich parasites to steal money from the rest of us!

horsewithnoname

JosephK said:

Wait for the Civil Servants charged with running the system for abolishing winter fuel allowance except for those on pension credit to make it more administratively expensive than retaining it as it was.

“The civil servants” don’t set the cost. Blame the politicians for making stupid decisions 

Scot_39

Ildhund said:

Sorry - isn't that exactly what the Chancellor said? It's only those who don't rely on just the state pension who are affected. The 'OAPs dying of cold next winter' are a small proportion of those who have income higher than the state pension as topped up by Pension Credit. How many are there, I wonder?

There is no such thing as the one state pension amount.  Basic or new system.  As both pay variable amounts based on earned credits.

And there's potential issues around the various state second pensions (s2p, serps, contracted  in / out) that complicate what individuals may get in total from state even for same qualification years.


Pension Credit - in main

You have to be below the c£11.3k - £218.15 pw and low savings to be topped up to it - or £17.3 k for couples.


Pensions
If lucky to  have full credit

The full old state pension for ages in early 70s and above  - £169.50 -  £8.8k pa. 

Nearly £50 per week below PC top up.

The full new state pension -  £221.20 pw - £11,500 pa. just above PC by £3.05 pw.



The belows

Pre Covid crisis 2019 iirc gov figures c3m entitled only 1.9m paid.  Seen a more recent lower estimates but still in several 100,000s.

Just above- not sure 

Take those on just £1200 - £100 per month more than the single 11.3k top up threshold

One close financial metric,  the 22 hmrc figures for PAYE by age - based on the £12570 tax threshold suggested only around half c6m in 12m - of state pension age didnt earn enough to pay  (including state pension and other taxable sources). 

But personal tax per individual - PC is individual or couple - so its not 1:1 mapping.

Age UK estimates upto 2 million at risk of hardship.  Not read the detailed basis.  But I can believe it's possible.

MP1995

It has been announced this is just the start, wait til the October Budget the we can play the game of, who's worse off.

cannugec5

wrf12345 said:

If you have the full state pension then you can't claim pension tax credit which you need to do to get WFA, if you have savings and just the state pension you can't claim any other benefits, which you may need to do to get WFA. No sane person would hand over their savings to the energy companies or, indeed, for council tax, so available funds for heating are going to be limited, this dependence on WFA thus means the difference between heating and no heating, it would at least allow the gas to run for a few hours a day for the coldest months of year.

I beg to differ. I think the absolutely sane thing to do is to use your savings to supplement your heating bills if necessary. 

What are you saving the money for? It’s no good to you once you’ve died from the cold. 

I remember having arguments with my grandparents many years ago trying to persuade them to spend their savings on an extra bag of coal when they were freezing cold. It’s not so different.