Martin's suggestion for winter fuel allowance

matt_drummer

MattMattMattUK said:

wrf12345 said:

and pay accountants incredible salaries to make sure their "profit" never exceeds three percent.

That is not how employee or board remuneration are accounted for. Costs are only allowable at a certain level, above that they would reduce profit not allow the energy supplier to charge more. If they increase their wage bill or operating profits they are not allowed to increase their sale price to maintain a 3% margin, those additional costs would eat into their profit. 

I think you have missunderstood @wrf12345

@wrf12345 thinks that accountants are paid large amounts of money to make 100% profit margins look like only 3% on paper.

That is how they think accountancy works

@wrf12345 does not believe that energy retailers make such low profit margins as they can see the true price of energy on the internet.

@wrf12345 believes that OFGEM have more than doubled standing charges unnecessarily to make businesses even richer than they already are (even though they are already even richer than they say they are due to all the false accounting going on)

I don't know what @wrf12345 does for a living but if I was them I would be looking at setting up an energy company to cash in on all the easy money that is available.

Buy electricity at 10p, sell for 15p with no standing charges for customers, what could go wrong?

Scot_39

@wrf12345

"the ones who buy electric for less than 10p a unit and sell it for 22p"

Energy suppliers are companies.

Unlike other companies however, they are forced to act like charities - providing services for free = debt = debt on balance sheet most of us now pay £28 towards in cap, or govt grant agencies - like supporting home insulation schemes.

And at least on default SVT capped policies do so for a capped operating margin of 2.4% EBIT - but then Ofgem cloud that by allowing other factors.

You might not agree with Ofgems exact estimates or splits  - but you surely acknowledge that these sort of additional imposed third party costs exist.

Some wholesale costs might well be 10p - but some renewables - like 2015 wind CfDs  - sold at the upto 12p at 2012 indexing - are definitely not (*)

And in any case - of the £1568 current cap - only £613 ex VAT -  strip out the £37 ind CfD - £576 - add VAT £605 - so much less than half is wholesale costs - near enough £1000 - from conventional sources and non high rate CfD wind / solar.

I know you don't trust Ofgem, but if did, they say you then need to add nearly £400 to c£600 wholesale costs just to get that power to your meter on current cap.  Over £200 in policy costs up £30 Apr to £188 and new specials - all pre  vat in the £1568 current df dd ap.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-02/Default Tariff Cap Letter - 1 April 2024 .pdf

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-05/Summary of changes to energy price cap 1 July to 30 September 2024.pdf



You want cheaper bills
Loby your MP to shift costs like insulation schemes and debt (from those not able to be cut off or those prevented from having prepay meters installed last year) onto taxpayers rather than bill payers.
Lobby your MP to abandon net zero - costing £10bn plus per annum at grid network level until at least 2035 according to ESO(*) Even wind CfDs again costing £37 in our wholesale costs £613 ex vat at tdcv cap = c1.45p / kWh - adding c7% to bring ave SR  to 22.36p

Because I can pretty much guarantee those two areas will be dwarfing any suppliers profits for years to come.

And I suspect neither are likely to change.

Scot_39

From

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c5y3n56eg9rt

"An attempt by the Conservatives to block cuts to the winter fuel allowance has failed, after MPs voted down an opposition motion by 348 to 228."

Labour had 411 MPs in July - Speaker doesnt vote - so had 410 max.  But 7 already  lost whip.

wrf12345

Enter the energy minister, abolishing standing charges to balance out the WFA cuts, Labour suddenly back in favour...

matt_drummer

wrf12345 said:

Enter the energy minister, abolishing standing charges to balance out the WFA cuts, Labour suddenly back in favour...

How?

I'm not a pensioner but I will effectively be getting the WFA?

Who is that helping and who is paying for it?

mmmmikey

wrf12345 said:

Enter the energy minister, abolishing standing charges to balance out the WFA cuts, Labour suddenly back in favour...

I'm afraid you seem to be living in a fantasy land of make believe. The cost of standing charges have to be paid, there is no simple magic solution. Similarly the cost of the WFA has to be paid for and again there is no simple magic solution.

Energy costs have risen, which is why standing charges have risen. The discussion about standing charges isn't about reducing costs, it's about moving those costs from one group of vulnerable people to another. For every winner there will be a loser.

The WFA is currently coming from borrowed money which future generations will have to pay for. The simple fact is you can't just go on borrowing forever. The change to WFA has been made so that only those who need it the most get it with a view to reducing the burden on future generations and/or allow investment in critical public services.

We've been living in a world of populist politics for far too long and simply not been facing reality. You can whine all you like about how unfair it is but in doing so you are part of the problem not the solution. 

MarzipanCrumble

I am a pensioner.  I wish the media would not lump us all under 'vulnerable and poor' description.  I am neither, and can well do without the WFP.   It would be interesting to know how many of the 10 million pensioners deprived of the WPF are 'earning' over 14K/23k from their pensions (min single/min couple income).  I would actuall up that to 20k/ 30k.

The media should also consider those of working age who have never had a WFP but are earning equivalent to a State Pension or a little above.  Don't they too deserve a booster to pay for winter fuel?

fryedslyce

MarzipanCrumble said:

I am a pensioner.  I wish the media would not lump us all under 'vulnerable and poor' description.  I am neither, and can well do without the WFP.   It would be interesting to know how many of the 10 million pensioners deprived of the WPF are 'earning' over 14K/23k from their pensions (min single/min couple income).  I would actuall up that to 20k/ 30k.

The media should also consider those of working age who have never had a WFP but are earning equivalent to a State Pension or a little above.  Don't they too deserve a booster to pay for winter fuel?

The current full state pension is £11,502.40p, not 14K

System

We've moved a couple of comments from: MSE News: Winter Fuel Payments could be reinstated for all pensioners if legal challenge succeeds.

wrf12345

"The media should also consider those of working age who have never had a WFP but are earning equivalent to a State Pension or a little above.  Don't they too deserve a booster to pay for winter fuel?"

Some pensioners don't feel the cold and are as healthy as a teenager so by that logic should not have the WFP, so I guess somewhere in the future we will all be tagged and wired into AI - thus assessed and sent extra heating credit when necessary. As the government can't even assess household income where pensioners are involved we are stuck with a rather crude system that helped more than it hindered and now just amps up the sense of unfairness amongst lower income pensioners who are not on benefits.