Plug in solar

QrizB

I think you might all be reading too much into it.

Just been reading a post that soon we won't be allowed to hand panels on fences, pergola and maybe even sheds??

The roofs / upper structures of pergolas, canopies, carports, sheds, wood stores etc. aren't obviously in scope of the exclusion. They're not walls, balconies or enclosures (they're either open structures, or a building in their own right) and they're not generally part of the exterior cladding of a flat (or dwellinghouse; they get an equivalent paragraph later in the order).

Wooden fences (and the walls of wooden sheds) are the main exclusions, to my mind.

kipsterno1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82095481#Comment_82095481

If it is wired then it isn't plug in solar and I think there are already building regs for fixed systems.

Newbie_John

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82095569#Comment_82095569

Sure, but you see where this is going:

1. Plugged in - plug in regualtions
2. Wired in - wired regulations
3. Directly connected to battery only - who knows
4. Not connected, decoration - who knows

Same panels in all 4 cases are either legal or illegal depending on what you have done to end of the wire..

Then there will be changes to these rules again and again, I'm sure batteries will be allowed one day - so what would happen if illegal system on timber fence is connected to legal battery (once they legal) plugged to socket?

tfhnota

The location of batteries for full systems have also changed (guidelines have turned into law) so new systems can not be outside near windows, doors, stairs, anything combustible, et al… but that will have to change again when sodium home batteries turn up as they do not catch fire in the same way as Lithium so should not be a problem. Interesting with plug-in batteries when they become legal, where do you put them so they are not a fire risk? The latest gen are often 5kwh and expandable to a lot more, some with solar inputs as well.

Martyn1981

Maybe replace the fence panel with a PV panel (ideally bi-facial)?

Now I'm wondering if a light steel frame kit for sheds could be produced, with all walls and roof filled in with panels. I may need a solar intervention. ;-)

tfhnota

Seems one half of the government is keen on plug-in and another half is stopping the creative DIY-ers from being able to, er, DIY. End up like double glazing where if you replace a window yourself without council sign off or Fensa you are treated like a serious criminal.

Scot_39

Seems one half of the government is keen on plug-in and another half is stopping the creative DIY-ers from being able to, er, DIY.

Firstly - Plug in is not the same as DIY.

its very easy for the creative DIYer to end up with mismatched components. As iirc highlighted above in this very thread from a non plug in diy installer.

Making a system approach arguably essential for plug in where no professional oversight applied.

If a full panel system professional installer did the same, putting mismatched components together, and it went wrong, they would be liable. A diy er has no such protection or comeback if came to an insurance claim.

secondly - install constraints

And as to the wood structures thing above - well panel fires are rare but do happen.

And stands to reason a wood structure far more likely to risk to go with it than say a system mounted on an offset tilted bracket on an iron balcony railing.

its afaik rare in uk but other nations did commonly and still do (but now costly) use wood itlself, wood cladding or even wood shingle tiles on their walls and roofs.

Many garages, sheds or fences obviously will be wooden here in UK.

Given the limitted savings many will get from sub optimal positioning etc even now in Aug let alone winter months - I think system and installation safety should be a very important consideration - for regulators and end users.

i think some who buy may even naively be expecting 800W means 800W, just as when they buy a 3kW kettle - its 3kW (even if isnt quite)

And yes safety means not just electrical safety.

The panels are not light, so safe handling at install - even more so at height - and once installed - subject to significant forces - wind, snow in some installs etc - which takes me back to the German report of poor bracket design and even in their testing extremes cases of bracket failures.

WiserMiser

You can't compare an 800W panel with a 3kW kettle. The output from the panel can be significantly less if it's not directly facing the sun at the time of measurement, is shaded, it's cloudy or there's high atmospheric absorption e.g. when the sun is very low in the sky. And of course, it'll be close to zero at night. There may also be small manufacturing tolerances, but this shouldn't be a problem unless the vendor is making exaggerated claims, in which case it's misrepresentation.

It's true that the power drawn by the 3kW kettle varies with the square of the mains voltage, which can vary from 216.2V to 253V. However for any given mains voltage the power drawn will remain virtually unchanged. Unless it’s faulty, it'll never fall to 100W.

flaneurs_lobster

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82096305#Comment_82096305

That, and one boils water and the other makes electricity.

TroubledTarts

If the natural selection process takes its cut then so be it for those that do silly things whilst installing a very simple system.

As Jimmy Car said "If he were King of the world the first law would be to abolish health and safety and let the stupid people do what stupid people do"