Advice before small claims court

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Sorry if it's been said but OP has the moving company given proof they've actually passed this over to their insurance?

If they have then pragmatically it's best to wait and see what happens.

If they haven't I would ask for such, if they refuse to give that would beg the question of why and if you did go to small claims would put them in a worse position as they could have avoided small claims by simply providing proof the insurers were dealing with it (I don't see why you should simply take the movers word for it, they might just be delaying in the hope you go away )

lincroft1710

PeppinPie1 said:

Okell said:

PeppinPie1 said:

Ectophile said:

Was the 14 days what the CAB asked you to put in the LBA?

It's normal for an LBA to give the other party a reasonable time to make things right, before you start the legal action.  14 days is a very popular time to pick.

There's nothing in legislation that sets out the time of 14 days, it's just what is widely held to be a reasonable amount of time for the other party to respond.

Yes it is what they advised me to put. 

I think you've probably got hold of the wrong end of the stick and/or CAB haven't explained it to you very well.

I assume CAB have told you that you have a claim under s49 and s54 of the in that the service was not carried out with reasonable care and skill.*

That legislation says nothing about you being entitled to be reimbursed within 14 days.

I suspect that what CAB actually told you (and what @Ectophile has suggested) is that before you could take legal action you would have to send the defendant a Letter Before Claim (aka Letter Before Action) setting out the legal basis for your claim and giving the defendant a reasonable period of time to respond, otherwise you would issue a court claim against them.  I suspect that CAB suggested that you give them 14 days in which to respond.  But there is no legal requirement for 14 days - you could have given them 21 days or 28 days or a calendar month or whatever.  You could even have given them 7 days but a court would probably consider that unreasonable.

The problem with sending a Letter Before Claim prematurely (ie before you've had proper discussions with the defendant) is that it's basically giving the other side an ultimatum to pay up within the specified timescale, otherwise you will sue them in court.  Once the timeline has expired, if you don't follow through with your threat to sue them, your threat runs the risk of being seen as empty and not something you will follow through on

A Letter Before Claim is really a last resort before suing someone, and some people would say you shouldn't send one unless you are 100% prepared to follow through with it.

What stage are you currently at.  You've sent a letter before claim giving them 14 days.  Have they responded at all within the 14 days?


*I'd suggest you also have an additional or alternative claim in straightforward negligence against the people who actually damaged the flooring.

To be clear CAB told be explicitly I should have been reimbursed within 14 days and I shouldn’t have to wait for their insurance before the company pays me. 

This was told to me on chat, in person and on the phone. 

I do not know what to do at this point… 
my autistic brain is telling me to run away from it all and accept the £400 loss

I don't know who you spoke to at CAB, but they seem to have no idea what they're talking about! Even if a claim is made via Small Claims and the claimant wins their case, it can legitimately take months before the claimant receives their money.


Importantly I should point out that winning at SC does not guarantee a claimant will receive their money. So added to the stress of presenting a case at court will be the stress of trying to get your money. From your posts I get the impression, the remover isn't the sort that if judgement goes against him, he will meekly pay up. Plus the judgement may not be in your favour.

Okell

PeppinPie1 said:

Okell said:

PeppinPie1 said:

Ectophile said:

Was the 14 days what the CAB asked you to put in the LBA?

It's normal for an LBA to give the other party a reasonable time to make things right, before you start the legal action.  14 days is a very popular time to pick.

There's nothing in legislation that sets out the time of 14 days, it's just what is widely held to be a reasonable amount of time for the other party to respond.

Yes it is what they advised me to put. 

I think you've probably got hold of the wrong end of the stick and/or CAB haven't explained it to you very well.

I assume CAB have told you that you have a claim under s49 and s54 of the in that the service was not carried out with reasonable care and skill.*

That legislation says nothing about you being entitled to be reimbursed within 14 days.

I suspect that what CAB actually told you (and what @Ectophile has suggested) is that before you could take legal action you would have to send the defendant a Letter Before Claim (aka Letter Before Action) setting out the legal basis for your claim and giving the defendant a reasonable period of time to respond, otherwise you would issue a court claim against them.  I suspect that CAB suggested that you give them 14 days in which to respond.  But there is no legal requirement for 14 days - you could have given them 21 days or 28 days or a calendar month or whatever.  You could even have given them 7 days but a court would probably consider that unreasonable.

The problem with sending a Letter Before Claim prematurely (ie before you've had proper discussions with the defendant) is that it's basically giving the other side an ultimatum to pay up within the specified timescale, otherwise you will sue them in court.  Once the timeline has expired, if you don't follow through with your threat to sue them, your threat runs the risk of being seen as empty and not something you will follow through on

A Letter Before Claim is really a last resort before suing someone, and some people would say you shouldn't send one unless you are 100% prepared to follow through with it.

What stage are you currently at.  You've sent a letter before claim giving them 14 days.  Have they responded at all within the 14 days?


*I'd suggest you also have an additional or alternative claim in straightforward negligence against the people who actually damaged the flooring.

To be clear CAB told be explicitly I should have been reimbursed within 14 days and I shouldn’t have to wait for their insurance before the company pays me. 

This was told to me on chat, in person and on the phone. 

I have sent the LBA and the moving company replied and told me to go ahead as he’s not paying up as it’s with his insurance. But moving company never explained to me is his insurance that pay me only that he is covered by insurance and will pay for the new floor. 

Had CAB told me I should wait I guess I wouldn’t be in this mess

I do not know what to do at this point… 
my autistic brain is telling me to run away from it all and accept the £400 loss

No - don't give up!!!  You don't have to accept a £400 loss!

Sorry if you feel some of the replies you've had have not been helpful, but you originally came on here to say that CAB had advised you that the removal people had to pay up within 14 days, but that they were refusing to do so, and you wanted advice before issuing a claim.

What you've been told here is that nobody knows what CAB are talking about with regards to the removal people having to pay up within 14 days.  There is no such legal requirement.  At least not one I'm aware of.

The other thing you've been advised here is that you probably jumped the gun a bit in sending a Letter Before Claim too quickly before you'd exhausted other avenues (eg their insurance) with the removal people.

But there's nothing to stop you going back to the removal people and chivvying them along a bit with regard to their insurers settling this.

If you can't reach an amicable settlement with them you can still go ahead and sue them.  (If you did end up having to do that I don't know whether or not you might need to send a second letter before claim).

Personally - as your situation seems to have come about because of the advice you received from CAB, why don't you go back to them and ask them how you proceed from here?  They gave you the initial advice so I'd have thought it made more sense to follow it up with them rather than asking afresh here.

You certainly shouldn't just accept a loss of £400

Good luck and don't let it get on top of you!     

PeppinPie1

Hello,

Over 3 months ago I moved into my new home - hired a moving company to move my items. During the move they damaged the vinyl floor in my kitchen. 

Advised the company of this who said they would pay for the damages. 

They are refusing to pay for the invoice to cover the damage to the floor until their insurance “deal with it” and pay out to them. 

Following some bad advice given to me by CAB (you can read my last post for this) I didn’t follow their advice and instead just left it and added for updates occasionally but all I get is “it’s with insurance” or “they are working on it”. It’s been over 3 months and I’m starting to doubt I’ll ever get a refund. I’ve not been given any proof it’s with the insurance nor do I believe it should have taken this long?

I’m just after some advice on where I should go with this now. Should the claim take this long? Should I have waited this long?
The total I’m asking for is £350 for a refund of the move which will cover a replacement vinyl floor. 

He is trading as a sole trader as his business is not on companies house. 

Based in Wales if that helps

thanks. 

GrumpyDil

You're entitled to the remaining value of the vinyl flooring rather than a replacement. Assuming it was not new and was already in the house the remaining  value is normally worked out by dividing the purchase price by the number of years it is expected to last and then multiplying by the number of years use you have been deprived of.

You could write a letter before action outlining what happened and how much you want in compensation, giving him 14 days to reply and stating if you are not able to come to a satisfactory resolution you will take legal action. 

If you do go down that route hopefully his insurance company will react. 

Okell

I think I was the last person who replied to your previous thread - which you really should have continued so as to keep everything in one place.

Did you do as I suggested and go back to CAB for clarification of what you said they had told you?  You said that they'd told you that the remover "had to pay up within 14 days" but everyone on the previous thread said that that made no sense (and it still doesn't).  Did you go back to them?

Hadn't you already jumped the gun and sent them a premature Letter Before Claim before you even started the last thread?  Where is that at now?  Have you issued a claim?

I'll ask for the threads to be merged so all in one place and people can follow the story...

PeppinPie1

Okell said:

I think I was the last person who replied to your previous thread - which you really should have continued so as to keep everything in one place.

Did you do as I suggested and go back to CAB for clarification of what you said they had told you?  You said that they'd told you that the remover "had to pay up within 14 days" but everyone on the previous thread said that that made no sense (and it still doesn't).  Did you go back to them?

Hadn't you already jumped the gun and sent them a premature Letter Before Claim before you even started the last thread?  Where is that at now?  Have you issued a claim?

I'll ask for the threads to be merged so all in one place and people can follow the story...

CAB just advised what they said was correct. Everyone else in my previous thread disagreed with this so I followed the voice of the majority and didn’t fill in the small claims court stuff online. 

I had already issued a LBA yes as that’s what CAB told me to do

saajan_12

The 14 days and insurance etc is all secondary / irrelevant. Back to basics, you hired people to do a move, they damaged your floor, and a fair recompense for that is the reasonable cost of a repair, paid in a reasonable time. 

Ideally you'd have a way to prove the quote you got was reasonably by getting more quotes for example. While waiting for their insurance might have avoided any risk that you're not left with a shortfall, its not necessary if you didn't agree in a contract to follow that process. 

While 14 days may have been too demanding, its now 2+ months so I don't see any issue with progressing to small claims court, which you can do at any time within 14 days. If too hasty, then the defendant might have an argument that you didn't give them a chance to sort it and so shouldn't be liable for the court cost. There's no fixed timeline, but IMO 2+ months is plenty. You could ask for a last update or send a final demand / LBA. Make it clear that 
- you're asking for £x which represents the cost of repairing the floor they damaged and agreed to recompense. 
- payment must be made within x days (say 14 days after your latest letter, not since the problem started)
- if its not forthcoming then you will immediately file in small claims court which will incur court fees, which you'll seek from them. 

After the deadline in your letter, file a money claim online. 

PeppinPie1

saajan_12 said:

The 14 days and insurance etc is all about secondary / irrelevant. Back to basics, you hired people to do a move, they damaged your floor, and a fair recompense for that is the reasonable cost of a repair, paid in a reasonable time. 

Ideally you'd have a way to prove the quote you got was reasonably by getting more quotes for example. While waiting for their insurance might have avoided any risk that you're not left with a shortfall, its not necessary if you didn't agree in a contract to follow that process. 

While 14 days may have been too demanding, its now 2+ months so I don't see any issue with progressing to small claims court, which you can do at any time within 14 days. If too hasty, then the defendant might have an argument that you didn't give them a chance to sort it and so shouldn't be liable for the court cost. There's no fixed timeline, but IMO 2+ months is plenty. You could ask for a last update or send a final demand / LBA. Make it clear that 
- you're asking for £x which represents the cost of repairing the floor they damaged and agreed to recompense. 
- payment must be made within x days (say 14 days after your latest letter, not since the problem started)
- if its not forthcoming then you will immediately file in small claims court which will incur court fees, which you'll seek from them. 

After the deadline in your letter, file a money claim online. 

He’s saying the reason he can’t pay me is because his insurance will “eventually” be the ones to pay me. And if he pays me now he’ll have to give his details to the insurance for them to send them the money and they won’t do that. 

Personally I think it’s a big load a lies that he’s saying…

Ectophile

PeppinPie1 said:

saajan_12 said:

The 14 days and insurance etc is all about secondary / irrelevant. Back to basics, you hired people to do a move, they damaged your floor, and a fair recompense for that is the reasonable cost of a repair, paid in a reasonable time. 

Ideally you'd have a way to prove the quote you got was reasonably by getting more quotes for example. While waiting for their insurance might have avoided any risk that you're not left with a shortfall, its not necessary if you didn't agree in a contract to follow that process. 

While 14 days may have been too demanding, its now 2+ months so I don't see any issue with progressing to small claims court, which you can do at any time within 14 days. If too hasty, then the defendant might have an argument that you didn't give them a chance to sort it and so shouldn't be liable for the court cost. There's no fixed timeline, but IMO 2+ months is plenty. You could ask for a last update or send a final demand / LBA. Make it clear that 
- you're asking for £x which represents the cost of repairing the floor they damaged and agreed to recompense. 
- payment must be made within x days (say 14 days after your latest letter, not since the problem started)
- if its not forthcoming then you will immediately file in small claims court which will incur court fees, which you'll seek from them. 

After the deadline in your letter, file a money claim online. 

He’s saying the reason he can’t pay me is because his insurance will “eventually” be the ones to pay me. And if he pays me now he’ll have to give his details to the insurance for them to send them the money and they won’t do that. 

Personally I think it’s a big load a lies that he’s saying…

I wouldn't believe a word of it.

If he genuinely has insurance, then he will have passed your LBA on to the insurance.  And if you issue a court summons, he would pass that on too.