Trading 212 - HSBC say it is a scam

dusthug

Funds are sent to the same suspense account and only the unique reference determines were funds are allocated. HSBC won't be able to tell what T212 product the funds are sent too.

Card top ups and Open Banking payments don't offer any specific information either.

Regardless, the fraudster would have access to the full T212 account and can move funds into the invest  account, where the card payments are taken from.

Aidanmc

dusthug said:

Funds are sent to the same suspense account and only the unique reference determines were funds are allocated. HSBC won't be able to tell what T212 product the funds are sent too.

Card top ups and Open Banking payments don't offer any specific information either.

Regardless, the fraudster would have access to the full T212 account and can move funds into the invest  account, where the card payments are taken from.

How does the fraudster get access to the other persons account?

masonic

Aidanmc said:

dusthug said:

Funds are sent to the same suspense account and only the unique reference determines were funds are allocated. HSBC won't be able to tell what T212 product the funds are sent too.

Card top ups and Open Banking payments don't offer any specific information either.

Regardless, the fraudster would have access to the full T212 account and can move funds into the invest  account, where the card payments are taken from.

How does the fraudster get access to the other persons account?

Would they need to? There is no confirmation of payee, so they just need to get the money sent to any account under their control. Many signed up for a free share without any intention to use the service and then abandoned their account.

EthicsGradient

masonic said:

Aidanmc said:

dusthug said:

Funds are sent to the same suspense account and only the unique reference determines were funds are allocated. HSBC won't be able to tell what T212 product the funds are sent too.

Card top ups and Open Banking payments don't offer any specific information either.

Regardless, the fraudster would have access to the full T212 account and can move funds into the invest  account, where the card payments are taken from.

How does the fraudster get access to the other persons account?

Would they need to? There is no confirmation of payee, so they just need to get the money sent to any account under their control. Many signed up for a free share without any intention to use the service and then abandoned their account.

So they need to be the one telling the scamee what the Trading 212 account number is. Is the claim that scammers are somehow (eg a fake website) intercepting requests to set up Trading 212 accounts, and passing on account numbers under their control, or that they're convincing some people "we'll set the account up for you", and then giving them the bad account number? Either way, I think HSBC shouldn't be telling people downloading the T212 app that "most people tell them it's a scam".

masonic

EthicsGradient said:

masonic said:

Aidanmc said:

dusthug said:

Funds are sent to the same suspense account and only the unique reference determines were funds are allocated. HSBC won't be able to tell what T212 product the funds are sent too.

Card top ups and Open Banking payments don't offer any specific information either.

Regardless, the fraudster would have access to the full T212 account and can move funds into the invest  account, where the card payments are taken from.

How does the fraudster get access to the other persons account?

Would they need to? There is no confirmation of payee, so they just need to get the money sent to any account under their control. Many signed up for a free share without any intention to use the service and then abandoned their account.

So they need to be the one telling the scamee what the Trading 212 account number is. Is the claim that scammers are somehow (eg a fake website) intercepting requests to set up Trading 212 accounts, and passing on account numbers under their control, or that they're convincing some people "we'll set the account up for you", and then giving them the bad account number? Either way, I think HSBC shouldn't be telling people downloading the T212 app that "most people tell them it's a scam".

The FCA reports several cloned web and email domains being used to impersonate T212. So, yes your suggestion seems likely. I agree if HSBC can confirm that the customer obtained the app from a secure channel like the App Store or Play Store, signed up using it, and has not been contacted and advised to use alternative payment details by anyone, they should be satisfied that this isn't related to the clone scam. I suppose the issue is that scam victims may be persuaded to lie about these details.

Firesnuffer

masonic said:

EthicsGradient said:

masonic said:

Aidanmc said:

dusthug said:

Funds are sent to the same suspense account and only the unique reference determines were funds are allocated. HSBC won't be able to tell what T212 product the funds are sent too.

Card top ups and Open Banking payments don't offer any specific information either.

Regardless, the fraudster would have access to the full T212 account and can move funds into the invest  account, where the card payments are taken from.

How does the fraudster get access to the other persons account?

Would they need to? There is no confirmation of payee, so they just need to get the money sent to any account under their control. Many signed up for a free share without any intention to use the service and then abandoned their account.

So they need to be the one telling the scamee what the Trading 212 account number is. Is the claim that scammers are somehow (eg a fake website) intercepting requests to set up Trading 212 accounts, and passing on account numbers under their control, or that they're convincing some people "we'll set the account up for you", and then giving them the bad account number? Either way, I think HSBC shouldn't be telling people downloading the T212 app that "most people tell them it's a scam".

The FCA reports several cloned web and email domains being used to impersonate T212. So, yes your suggestion seems likely. I agree if HSBC can confirm that the customer obtained the app from a secure channel like the App Store or Play Store, signed up using it, and has not been contacted and advised to use alternative payment details by anyone, they should be satisfied that this isn't related to the clone scam. I suppose the issue is that scam victims may be persuaded to lie about these details.

I think it’s absolutely what HSBC should be doing.  What they actually did is flood my wife with scam scare stories and had no intention of helping make a secure transaction.  She won’t invest with Trading 212 now. Well done HSBC. 

dusthug

This one has nothing to do cloned companies or fake progressive Web apps. 

The problem is, the new rules starting October 7th are being used now as part of a rolling launch.

As long as customers can get refunds after lying, this situation will happen more 

The Ops wife could consider using her debit card or Open Banking payments, as they're not covered by the code.

EthicsGradient

dusthug said:

This one has nothing to do cloned companies or fake progressive Web apps. 

The problem is, the new rules starting October 7th are being used now as part of a rolling launch.

As long as customers can get refunds after lying, this situation will happen more 

The Ops wife could consider using her debit card or Open Banking payments, as they're not covered by the code.

That doesn't make sense. If it's not about clones or fakes, but "rules", then it would apply to every single organisation that can't take part in Confirmation of Payee , not just Trading 212. They'd have to claim "our customers say all of them are scams".

dusthug

EthicsGradient said:

dusthug said:

This one has nothing to do cloned companies or fake progressive Web apps. 

The problem is, the new rules starting October 7th are being used now as part of a rolling launch.

As long as customers can get refunds after lying, this situation will happen more 

The Ops wife could consider using her debit card or Open Banking payments, as they're not covered by the code.

That doesn't make sense. If it's not about clones or fakes, but "rules", then it would apply to every single organisation that can't take part in Confirmation of Payee , not just Trading 212. They'd have to claim "our customers say all of them are scams".

The updates to APP fraud prevention have a big emphasis on "breaking the spell" at the start of the scam. 

Previously sending money to your own account somewhere else, then being scammed after, would be the problem of the exit bank.

Breaking the spell now means there's stronger intervention at the first movement of money. 

So sending money to your own account, confirmation of Payee or not, will see more payment blocks, enforced delays or outright declines.

The new beneficiary bank checks are going to add their own headaches when they kick in too.

masonic

I am very doubtful banks will be blocking payments to COP-matched accounts in the same name as the sending account, but we'll see...