Stopping at airport for one minute, possible penalty charge

HarryIb

This is a second-hand account from a relative, but it is undoubtedly accurate. My relative was collecting members of the family at Luton Airport. The parking situation there is appalling, the more so since the main carpark burnt down a while ago. He was driving around the pick-up/drop-off area looking for somewhere to park when the family members spotted him, ran over, and attempted to get into the car and put the luggage in the boot. At that point a high-viz-jacketed goon approached the vehicle shouting and balling at the driver to keep moving or he would be fined £95. My relative told him he wouldn't be paying, so the goon jumped in front of the vehicle and made a point of taking down the registration number in a notebook, whilst again shouting in a condescending manner that (paraphrasing) "you'll be paying alright!". My relative did not provide any information to the goon (no obligation to do so, nor to subsequently provide driver details). Needless to say, this episode put the dampeners on what should have been a happy occasion of meeting family not seen for a while.

I'm advising my relative on this matter and I'd like to confirm a few points:

Do APCOA run the pick-up/drop-off parking scam? I know they run the airport carparks at Luton, but I can't determine if they have this additional responsibility.

Is it still the case that APCOA 'don't do court'. I believe it is, but could someone confirm?

My relative is adamant that he's not entering into any communication with anyone concerning this matter. However, I'm wondering whether a letter of complaint concerning the behaviour of the goon should be sent to the airport. 

If this gets gets as far as debt collectors, do they ever show up on the doorstep? I believe not, but could someone confirm. If they may show up, I'm thinking that a letter withdrawing implied right of access to the property might be useful.

Any advice concerning the above would be gratefully received.

Thanks.

Grizebeck

Apcoa so easy to beat.
Yes still at Luton. 

lulaw

I dropped a friend to Luton airport express drop off early hours of the morning. By the time I got home I had forgotten to pay the charge. I paid it the next day. Will I be fined? 

LDast

lulaw said:

I dropped a friend to Luton airport express drop off early hours of the morning. By the time I got home I had forgotten to pay the charge. I paid it the next day. Will I be fined? 

Please start your own thread. Will you be “fined”… never. Will you receive a speculative invoice from APCOA… how long is a piece of string?

LDast

HarryIb said:

This is a second-hand account from a relative, but it is undoubtedly accurate. My relative was collecting members of the family at Luton Airport. The parking situation there is appalling, the more so since the main carpark burnt down a while ago. He was driving around the pick-up/drop-off area looking for somewhere to park when the family members spotted him, ran over, and attempted to get into the car and put the luggage in the boot. At that point a high-viz-jacketed goon approached the vehicle shouting and balling at the driver to keep moving or he would be fined £95. My relative told him he wouldn't be paying, so the goon jumped in front of the vehicle and made a point of taking down the registration number in a notebook, whilst again shouting in a condescending manner that (paraphrasing) "you'll be paying alright!". My relative did not provide any information to the goon (no obligation to do so, nor to subsequently provide driver details). Needless to say, this episode put the dampeners on what should have been a happy occasion of meeting family not seen for a while.

I'm advising my relative on this matter and I'd like to confirm a few points:

Do APCOA run the pick-up/drop-off parking scam? I know they run the airport carparks at Luton, but I can't determine if they have this additional responsibility.

Is it still the case that APCOA 'don't do court'. I believe it is, but could someone confirm?

My relative is adamant that he's not entering into any communication with anyone concerning this matter. However, I'm wondering whether a letter of complaint concerning the behaviour of the goon should be sent to the airport. 

If this gets gets as far as debt collectors, do they ever show up on the doorstep? I believe not, but could someone confirm. If they may show up, I'm thinking that a letter withdrawing implied right of access to the property might be useful.

Any advice concerning the above would be gratefully received.

Thanks.

Easy peasy to beat. Simply appeal to APCOA as the keeper,  no identifying who was driving with the following:

I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Luton Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Luton Airport owners wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA’s own profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

HarryIb

LDast said:

Easy peasy to beat. Simply appeal to APCOA as the keeper,  no identifying who was driving with the following:

I am the registered keeper. APCOA cannot hold a registered keeper liable for any alleged contravention on land that is under statutory control. As a matter of fact and law, APCOA will be well aware that they cannot use the PoFA provisions because Luton Airport is not 'relevant land'.

If Luton Airport owners wanted to hold owners or keepers liable under Airport Byelaws, that would be within the landowner's gift and another matter entirely. However, not only is that not pleaded, it is also not legally possible because APCOA is not the Airport owner and your 'parking charge' is not and never attempts to be a penalty. It is created for APCOA’s own profit (as opposed to a byelaws penalty that goes to the public purse) and APCOA has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. APCOA have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Thanks for the suggested text. My relative is keen to just ignore the scammers completely, but I think it's probably better to respond as you suggest. I'll update this thread with any developments.

LDast

The appeal suggested works every time. Ignoring APCOA, whilst an option, is not advised as the keeper will get a load of debt collector letters. 

Just send the appeal and be done with it. 

Half_way

A few simple things you need to remember when dealign with these things:

1: These are not fines or penalties.

 It's important to try and understand this, from both your own mindset on what you have got, and for others.

 The parking industry relies on half-truths, smoke and mirrors etc If people stop paying these things and fight every one - seeing them for what they really are then the whole house of cards will collapse.

 As said, a lot of people call these fines and think they are such, including employees of hire/lease companies, and when dealing with those entities getting the terminology correct is even more important.

2: Never attempt to identify the driver, not on here or anywhere else. Under the protection of freedoms act, parking companies can pass their charges onto the registered keeper of a vehicle. But in order to do so, then they must meet certain criteria. At an airport, or port/dock or even some harbours the land is covered by separate bye-laws which makes them non-relevant land as afar as the protection of freedoms act goes.

 As long as the drivers' identity is unknown, then that should be that, the driver, registered keeper, owner and in some cases the hirer of the vehicle can all be separate entities so as long as the parking company isn't informed of who those may be then they will have to do so themselves which is by and large impossible/not worth the effort, when there are plenty of other more gullible easy targets out there (see point 1)

 Also, if possible, then try and weasel out of the parking company a phrase where they say that the bye-laws at the site are old and outdated / obsolete or other such stuff , there have been multiple reports of such being said by parking companies and when taken up on this is was put down to a one-off mistake by the parking company

3: Do not ignore - parking companies can take people to court, sometimes without the individual's knowledge, its much easier to nip these things in the bud an get rid of them you will get advice on how to do that here

Grizebeck

Why ignore when you can beat it easily.

HarryIb

Grizebeck said:

Why ignore when you can beat it easily.

We're definitely going to send in the appeal. I'll post details of any developments on here. Thanks.

Coupon-mad

There won't be anything except they'll cancel!

EASY ONE.