Demise and undemised roof space

cherry76

Can somebody explain the difference pl? I understand demise means the loft does not belong to the flat.? Thanks

user1977

"Demise" is "what you own". If somebody refers to "undemised roof space" above a flat, it means it isn't owned by the flat (so probably communal space owned by the freeholder and not leased to anyone).

cherry76

Thanks, description from estate agent “ further access is provided to an undemised attic space which has been fully lined.” So will need to query that when viewing whether the current seller has permission to use the loft.

user1977

At most it means they are getting away with using it, but they don't legally own it (so you'd need to assume you could be kicked out whenever the freeholder objects).

eddddy

cherry76 said:

Thanks, description from estate agent “ further access is provided to an undemised attic space which has been fully lined.” So will need to query that when viewing whether the current seller has permission to use the loft.

It sounds like there is loft which 'belongs' to the freeholder, not the seller. But the seller is using the loft without permission.

So if you buy the flat, you can probably continue to use the loft without permission. But if the freeholder finds out, they will probably tell you to stop using the loft.


So if you decided to buy it (especially with a mortgage)...

• You would typically not tell your solicitor and mortgage lender about the loft. But they may see that it's mentioned in the property details, so you might have to tell them that you won't use it.

• When the mortgage valuer visits, the loft mustn't appear to be part of the flat.

• You could maybe regard the loft as a 'free bonus space', which you can use until the freeholder finds out

And maybe think carefully about mentioning the use of the loft to your neighbours. For example, if you annoy them about something, they might tell the freeholder that you're using the loft, as retaliation.

(But the freeholder and/or neighbours might see the loft mentioned in property listing on Rightmove anyway. Which might prompt the freeholder to take action.)

cherry76

Could one ask the freeholder permission to use the loft? Will find more when doing viewing.

user1977

cherry76 said:

Could one ask the freeholder permission to use the loft?

Yes. Though that might be what prompts the freeholder to realise what's going on and kick you out...

Albermarle

cherry76 said:

Could one ask the freeholder permission to use the loft? Will find more when doing viewing.

There is also a potential safety issue.
There is a big difference between a proper loft conversion, and an loft that has been 'fully lined' whatever that means exactly.
Probably OK for light storage space and carefully walking around in it. However most likely unsuitable for using it for anything else, or jumping up and down too hard on the floor !

Another point is that the freeholder may have given permission to the current flat occupant to use the space.

eddddy

cherry76 said:

Could one ask the freeholder permission to use the loft? Will find more when doing viewing.

Often, people buy freeholds as investments - so they hope to get as much money as possible from ground rents, lease extensions, administration fees, premiums, etc.

That type of freeholder is unlikely to let you use the loft for free. In fact, they're more likely to negotiate very hard to get every penny they possibly can, in return for letting you use the loft.

And then if you don't pay, the freeholder would stop you using the loft - and there's even a possibility that the freeholder could try to make you liable for the cost of removing the boarding in the loft.


(It may also be that the loft is potentially very valuable to the freeholder, as it might be feasible to convert it and add another floor to the top floor flat.)