Council tax court summons

MrMagic

My fiancé and I purchased a house, and we moved in early July.  Previously I had been living in a family home and she was living with with her brother in a rented flat. Just before we moved in we informed the council for council tax purposes via their electronic form. We took a screenshot of the confirmation. The form stated her change of address, and it also recorded my name as residing at our new property for council tax purposes. 

Monthly council tax payments had previously been paid via her brothers account, and he ceased direct debit payments after we all moved. He is now at a different address with his own separate arrangements.

The assumption was that we would receive a council tax request soon after moving in, as had happened with past accommodation. We did not get this however.

We made enquiries digitally as per process, and a telephone query was also turned away because apparently now must be submitted digitally.

Within in a few days my fiancé did get a council tax letter, but not the one we expected. It was addressed to her old flat and it had been forwarded to our new home via Royal Mail. It demanded that my fiancé pay approximately £1200 to cover the entire years council tax for her previous address, i.e. to cover until until March 2025. The online form had by that time been completed a month previously, so the council surely should have known she was no longer at that address. 

No response was received to her digital query until after this letter was with us but once it arrived, it asked her continue monthly payments for the previous address- or they take formal action against her. That is a tad ridiculous, as she would then have to set up direct debit payments for an address which is now inhabited by someone completely different, indeed a person unknown to us. She requested invoice for our actual address.

Unfortunately that letter was followed quickly with a court summons, demanding prompt payment, including payment of additional administrative fees. 

A further concern is still with to the council in electronic format at the present time, but I am not holding my breath as they seem to take weeks to respond. 

So my fiancé is in a position where they are being told to pay 1200 in council tax plus fees for an address she does not live at. Either that or appear in court at the end of the month. Meanwhile the council seem blissfully unaware that we are residing at our new address despite having completed their required documentation 6 weeks ago and having sent them various other communications.

Has anyone else been in a similar position?

FreeBear

MrMagic said: So my fiancé is in a position where they are being told to pay 1200 in council tax plus fees for an address she does not live at. Either that or appear in court at the end of the month.

You have one of two choices if the council is not responding to communications in a timely fashion.

1) Go down to the office and demand to speak to someone face to face to get it sorted there & then.

2) Attend court, taking all the documentation with you and challenge the liability order - The risk is the judge will just rubber stamp the application, and then the council can send the bailiffs round (adding even more fees on top).

I'd go for option 1 first thing Monday, and if that fails, attend court in person.

MrMagic

FreeBear said:

MrMagic said: So my fiancé is in a position where they are being told to pay 1200 in council tax plus fees for an address she does not live at. Either that or appear in court at the end of the month.

You have one of two choices if the council is not responding to communications in a timely fashion.

1) Go down to the office and demand to speak to someone face to face to get it sorted there & then.

2) Attend court, taking all the documentation with you and challenge the liability order - The risk is the judge will just rubber stamp the application, and then the council can send the bailiffs round (adding even more fees on top).

I'd go for option 1 first thing Monday, and if that fails, attend court in person.

The first option will start on Monday morning. The fear is that if the case goes to court the council will be armed with various legal technicalities and any loss would impact on our her credit history, etc, which would be hugely undesirable. I can see the bill having to be paid out of self defence.

If she does end up paying the bill and fees, I wouldn't mind betting the council suddenly realise we living at a new the property and send another large council tax bill on top of the old one. In terms of the change of address system, the finer points around change of address and what acceptable timescales are or are not considered to be seem about as clear as mud.

I was previously living in my family home and the council were aware of me living there, but I did not have my own council tax account. As it was, my fiancé declared me as the other resident in the property on her change of address form, which appears to be the correct route (we think). As yet the council are not recognising the form.

I've not set up my own council account, as from what I can see that would set up two separate council tax statements, but perhaps I should have (?). 

We will see what results from this mess. Probably us losing money. 

BarelySentientAI

MrMagic said:

FreeBear said:

MrMagic said: So my fiancé is in a position where they are being told to pay 1200 in council tax plus fees for an address she does not live at. Either that or appear in court at the end of the month.

You have one of two choices if the council is not responding to communications in a timely fashion.

1) Go down to the office and demand to speak to someone face to face to get it sorted there & then.

2) Attend court, taking all the documentation with you and challenge the liability order - The risk is the judge will just rubber stamp the application, and then the council can send the bailiffs round (adding even more fees on top).

I'd go for option 1 first thing Monday, and if that fails, attend court in person.

The first option will start on Monday morning. The fear is that if the case goes to court the council will be armed with various legal technicalities and any loss would impact on our her credit history, etc, which would be hugely undesirable. I can see the bill having to be paid out of self defence.

There is no "legal technicality" that makes her liable for council tax in a rented property for a period that she didn't rent it.

The "legal technicality" would be that if you don't bother to attend court or challenge the order, it then becomes a sort of court debt instead which is much more difficult to challenge.

Jude57

MrMagic said:

FreeBear said:

MrMagic said: So my fiancé is in a position where they are being told to pay 1200 in council tax plus fees for an address she does not live at. Either that or appear in court at the end of the month.

You have one of two choices if the council is not responding to communications in a timely fashion.

1) Go down to the office and demand to speak to someone face to face to get it sorted there & then.

2) Attend court, taking all the documentation with you and challenge the liability order - The risk is the judge will just rubber stamp the application, and then the council can send the bailiffs round (adding even more fees on top).

I'd go for option 1 first thing Monday, and if that fails, attend court in person.

The first option will start on Monday morning. The fear is that if the case goes to court the council will be armed with various legal technicalities and any loss would impact on our her credit history, etc, which would be hugely undesirable. I can see the bill having to be paid out of self defence.

If she does end up paying the bill and fees, I wouldn't mind betting the council suddenly realise we living at a new the property and send another large council tax bill on top of the old one. In terms of the change of address system, the finer points around change of address and what acceptable timescales are or are not considered to be seem about as clear as mud.

I was previously living in my family home and the council were aware of me living there, but I did not have my own council tax account. As it was, my fiancé declared me as the other resident in the property on her change of address form, which appears to be the correct route (we think). As yet the council are not recognising the form.

I've not set up my own council account, as from what I can see that would set up two separate council tax statements, but perhaps I should have (?). 

We will see what results from this mess. Probably us losing money. 

Council Tax liability is dealt with by Magistrates Court, not County Court and is what's called a strict liability offence. Put simply, an individual is either liable for Council Tax or they are not, and that's all the Magistrates can decide upon. They can't decide how much an individual should pay nor whether any discounts or exemptions should apply. A Council Tax Liability Order is not recorded on credit reports because it's simply a tool which gives the Council various options for debt recovery, such as passing the debt to bailiffs, attachment of earnings and several other possible routes, some of which MAY be recorded on a credit report.

In your girlfriend's case, if a visit to the Council offices doesn't resolve the matter (insist on seeing a manager if the first person you deal with doesn't resolve the issue to your satisfaction) you should certainly attend the Magistrates Court hearing and exercise your right to go before the Magistrates to present your evidence as to why your girlfriend is no longer the Liable Person for her former address. Writing out a timeline of the actions your girlfriend has taken, supported by screenshots, is helpful here. The Magistrates will then suspend granting the Liability Order and refer the matter back to the Council to resolve. They may use the term 'adjourned sine die' which means 'to a later, unspecified date' to give the Council time to complete their enquiries and to correct their records. The Council, once they've done that, will re-list the case and withdraw their application for the Liability Order - and your girlfriend needs to insist on having this in writing from the Council.

I suspect that an error has been made somewhere in the process and your girlfriend hasn't been removed as liable from the previous address, despite your best efforts. It should be easily rectified and I hope it is, but in the event that you can't get it resolved by visiting the Council offices, I'd recommend you contact your local Councillor for help - it's what they are there for - you'll find their contact information on the Council's website. I was a Council Tax recovery officer for over a decade and I can confirm that Councillor queries always got priority, if only to stop them hanging around and getting in the way!

I hope this helps and that you can get this resolved quickly and finally.

MrMagic

Thank you all for your helpful comments.

I've done some research and had looked at the precise chain of events:

Her brother made a final monthly payment on 07/06/24 which will have covered council tax for the rented flat up until 07/07/24. He left the flat around 01/07/24. The tenancy formally ended on 13/07/24, but each of us were in our new properties by that stage. I have a bit of concern about the completion date of the electronic form, compared to the last payment date. It still does not explain why the council have not acknowledged us as living at the new address however.

28/06/24 - The formal date of completion for our new property. It was not our main address at this stage, although we did state the date on our change of address form. 

05/07/24 - Attempts were made to complete the councils change of address form throughout this week (multiple times I understand), but there was some sort of problem with the council form which stated an "error" on submission, so it would not accept the form when the 'submit' button was clicked (my fiancé saved the screen shot).

09/07/2024 - Change of address form was finally completed as the error message didn't appear any more, presumably the council had fixed the form (screen shot saved). This is the same day we actually began living in the new property. 

13/07/24 - Keys were handed back to letting agency.

My fiancé informed me when she moved previously the council sent a new council tax letter quite quickly, also with details of any shortfall from the previous property - she said this is typical when someone moves, the amount is usually very small (£50 or so) and she paid it off quickly without any issues or challenge from the council.

Nearer the end of June we started to have concerns because a council tax letter had not arrived at our new house. This is when further communications started.

lincroft1710

If the tenancy of gf's old flat didn't end until 13/07/24, and her brother had paid only covering the period until 07/07/24 then if gf and brother were joint tenants, they would be jointly and severally liable for the period 08/07/24 to 12/07/24.


I am wondering if the letting agency had neglected to inform the council that the LL or a new tenant has taken occupation of the flat from 13/07/24

MrMagic

lincroft1710 said:

If the tenancy of gf's old flat didn't end until 13/07/24, and her brother had paid only covering the period until 07/07/24 then if gf and brother were joint tenants, they would be jointly and severally liable for the period 08/07/24 to 12/07/24.


I am wondering if the letting agency had neglected to inform the council that the LL or a new tenant has taken occupation of the flat from 13/07/24

That's what I'm starting to wonder, although they of course the council should know exactly when the tenancy ended by reading the electronic form which was submitted weeks ago. 

We actually suspect the landlord may be doing some work on the old flat, but in that case surely the landlord would be paying the council tax from 13/07/24 rather than a tenant. I wonder what the landlord and/or letting agency's responsibilities are.

From what I can see the maximum owed by fiancé and her brother should be no more than 5-6 days in July, and even then (so I am told) under such circumstances the council should seek remittance by forwarding an invoice for those 5-6 days alone. My fiancé is happy to settle any genuine costs owed, but the court summons is demanding over £1200 for tax relating to the old flat between "April 2024 and March 2025". The address on the letter is not correct, it only reached us due to mail redirection from the old address.

I am also assuming we owe council tax starting from 28/06/24 for our new address. We want to pay the council tax for the new address and we have told them so, but apparently the council systems are so slow they have not worked that out yet.

Jude57

MrMagic said:

lincroft1710 said:

If the tenancy of gf's old flat didn't end until 13/07/24, and her brother had paid only covering the period until 07/07/24 then if gf and brother were joint tenants, they would be jointly and severally liable for the period 08/07/24 to 12/07/24.


I am wondering if the letting agency had neglected to inform the council that the LL or a new tenant has taken occupation of the flat from 13/07/24

That's what I'm starting to wonder, although they of course the council should know exactly when the tenancy ended by reading the electronic form which was submitted weeks ago. 

We actually suspect the landlord may be doing some work on the old flat, but in that case surely the landlord would be paying the council tax from 13/07/24 rather than a tenant. I wonder what the landlord and/or letting agency's responsibilities are.

From what I can see the maximum owed by fiancé and her brother should be no more than 5-6 days in July, and even then (so I am told) under such circumstances the council should seek remittance by forwarding an invoice for those 5-6 days alone. My fiancé is happy to settle any genuine costs owed, but the court summons is demanding over £1200 for tax relating to the old flat between "April 2024 and March 2025". The address on the letter is not correct, it only reached us due to mail redirection from the old address.

I am also assuming we owe council tax starting from 28/06/24 for our new address. We want to pay the council tax for the new address and we have told them so, but apparently the council systems are so slow they have not worked that out yet.

All Council Tax correspondence will refer to the financial year running from April to the following March but the actual period being charged should appear in the body of the document. Council Tax is technically a daily charge over the financial year, so 01/04/24 to 31/03/25 or any part-period thereof. To calculate how much is due, take the full annual amount due less any discounts, divide by 365 and multiply by the number of days resident at the address, so 30 for April, 31 for May, 30 for June and 12 for July = 103 days. So if the Council Tax for the year is £1200, you'd divide by 365 to achieve £3.288 per day, multiplied by 103 = £338.63 due for the period and deduct payments made to give you the outstanding balance, if any.

As to the documentation being wrongly addressed, that and the outstanding charge being for the full year indicates that the Council haven't updated their records despite you completing the online form but legally they are only required to use the last known address so that alone won't invalidate the summons. I'm hoping your visit to the Council offices will render all this moot, though.

MrMagic

Just to update. This (appears) to have ended happily in the end. Using a number stated on the summons, a useful person was suddenly available. Apparently the council records now show just £39 owing for the handful of days at the end of tenancy for the flat. The person stated that once paid (which it has been), the court order would cease, and we will now sent an accurate council tax bill for our new property. The call was recorded by my fiancé … just in case.