Is solar battery storage worth it?

Nick_Dr1

Reed_Richards said:

Screwdriva said:

Reed_Richards said:

Because?  Do you frequently make journeys of over 200 miles without stopping anywhere long enough to recharge an EV.  That must mean you drive far further each year than the average 7000 miles. 

Personal preference aside, we drive from London to the Devon coast several times a year. It's a ~230 mile drive each way and we typically don't stop for more than a quick loo break. Our annual mileage is ~4500 miles. 

You'd probably be better off hiring a car for these journeys. Car hire for these journeys and a basic EV for the rest of the time would probably cost no more than your current expenditure.
Just a thought - I'm not really taking a stance on this, but such low mileages would benefit from more imaginative transport solutions, if finance/efficiency is a concern. If finance isn't a concern then fill your boots.

Martyn1981

Nick_Dr1 said:

Reed_Richards said:

Screwdriva said:

Reed_Richards said:

Because?  Do you frequently make journeys of over 200 miles without stopping anywhere long enough to recharge an EV.  That must mean you drive far further each year than the average 7000 miles. 

Personal preference aside, we drive from London to the Devon coast several times a year. It's a ~230 mile drive each way and we typically don't stop for more than a quick loo break. Our annual mileage is ~4500 miles. 

You'd probably be better off hiring a car for these journeys. Car hire for these journeys and a basic EV for the rest of the time would probably cost no more than your current expenditure.
Just a thought - I'm not really taking a stance on this, but such low mileages would benefit from more imaginative transport solutions, if finance/efficiency is a concern. If finance isn't a concern then fill your boots.

And just to say, a variation on that theme, for households with 2 or more cars, might be to get a very cheap short range BEV as the second car. That was our approach, having a 24kWh Leaf with about 70 miles of range (if you drove slow enough), with a our ageing petrol Zafira.

But as soon as we got to try BEV driving the Leaf was the car we fought over, and was doing 80% of all mileage.

So a great way to experiment, and find out that BEV driving is actually really easy and fun. Also a PHEV (whilst being the worst of both worlds, as well as the best) is a good way to experience EV driving, and I hope they are actually 'Trojan BEV's'.

Sadly the leccy only range of most offerings in Europe are a tad small, whereas many Chinese offerings are better. But it's still a way to experience and learn about EV's, perhaps as a secondhand option, for those not ready/able to go full BEV yet.

greenbee

My last courtesy car (I had to take mine to a main dealer for a recall) was electric, and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised - including by the battery life. I'd warned them that I had to go to work after drop off and then get home and back to them the following morning (they don't stay open late enough for me to do that in one day). It was 110 miles from them to the office, charged there, came home, drove to the dealer. They were slightly put out as they don't expect their courtesy cars to be used quite that much, but I did point out that it had made me re-evaluate my concerns around going all-electric. I didn't mention that I tend to only buy new(er) cars when my mechanic refuses to put my current one through another MOT  

LBrooks

Have enjoyed discussion although it seems to have moved more to electric vehicles than home batteries! I wonder if anyone else is considering a battery via the Solar Together scheme (a method whereby an installer is chosen to quote for a large group of interested people in a region)? As an organisation they seem to have new concerns about batteries being located indoors in a cellar. I found the MSE article very clear, but can appreciate that there are a few generalisations and the installation of batteries in lofts is definitely not recommended currently. Any more opinions about location of batteries?

I think for us the smaller size of battery will be worth it and help us use more of our solar energy but now find it very difficult to decide whether the FIT deemed export payments we currently receive are better (financially and ethically) than changing our Octopus tariff and getting SEG. Might be difficult to change habits to make the most of the different peak and off peak tariffs. Would be good to get an EV in future, but with no drive or garage charging might be tricky. Also maybe a heat pump one day...

Reed_Richards

LBrooks said:

Have enjoyed discussion although it seems to have moved more to electric vehicles than home batteries! 

Indeed.  But if you have access to cheap electricity at certain times, as you would do on an EV tariff or on an Economy 7 tariff then it probably makes sense to use that cheap electricity to also charge a battery, particularly when you are not expecting enough sun to do that for you.  So if you have an EV it adds to your reasons for having a solar battery (although if the technology ever gets beyond field trials then you might be able to use your EV car battery instead of a solar battery).

Martyn1981

Reed_Richards said:

LBrooks said:

Have enjoyed discussion although it seems to have moved more to electric vehicles than home batteries! 

Indeed.  But if you have access to cheap electricity at certain times, as you would do on an EV tariff or on an Economy 7 tariff then it probably makes sense to use that cheap electricity to also charge a battery, particularly when you are not expecting enough sun to do that for you.  So if you have an EV it adds to your reasons for having a solar battery (although if the technology ever gets beyond field trials then you might be able to use your EV car battery instead of a solar battery).

Yes, it's really how all the different parts can lean on each other to improve their viability, effectively "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts."

I'm thinking that combinations of, PV, A2A or ASHP, BEV, cheap rate and batteries, make a great package?

Doesn't mean batts are viable today, for me personally I'd guess at 2 more years, but I simply couldn't wait any longer.

I couldn't get cheap rate to work for me even with PV, but the moment we got a BEV, it was a no brainer. Then the cheap night rate boosted the A2A units, by allowing them to run over night in the winter, to help reduce GCH use. Before cheap rate, they were only used to help with heating in the shoulder months from spare PV.

And then the batts boost everything. Suddenly BEV charging and A2A use got 10x easier, as they buffer generation, no longer a need to match supply/demand on an instantaneous basis. And further boost to A2A use, and reduced gas consumption in the winter months, by being able to run them during the day, leaning on cheap rate battery charge, instead of low (too low) PV generation.

Doesn't mean any/all of the parts are viable for some today, but as more parts are added, the argument strenghens (but of course the total cost / investment increases - the cloud in front of the silver lining).

[Side note - I think the Gov is at least open to considering A2A units for some sort of subsidy support, perhaps VAT free. That would be a great move, allowing many (especially those with PV) to go 'HP light' for a start. My gut feeling is that we may not see any move on policy, which is suspicous of A2A as they are air con, but I hold out hope.]


Edit - Just read this letter from Sweden, nice timing. I believe there is a bit of confusion as I think Mr Bradley is describing an A2A unit not a complete ASHP wet system. However, nice to hear how well it works, and our very own @Coastalwatch has managed to do this too, but for 12 months of the year. Of course a two storey property is trickier (and ours is technically three) hence the 'hybrid' nature of the article, which fits with some of my previous waffle on this thread.

Britain should warm to heat pumps like Sweden

I don’t understand why heat pumps should be so expensive in the UK. Here, you can buy a good air source heat pump for £2,000, including installation. My heat pump has a fan that blows out warm air – it is sufficient to heat a two-storey house of 130 sq metres 10 months of the year. When the temperatures get down to below -5C, we have to put on the radiators sometimes.

Pug12345

Hello Team 
we have solar panels for over 10 years now and were thinking of getting a battery or two for them we have 16 panels the max i think and was wondering if it would be a good idea for batteries was quoted £5990.00 for a Growatt x2 batteries plus growattSPA1000-3000TL BL is this a good deal or not 
thanking you in advanve 

regards 

Screwdriva

Wouldn't touch Growatt with a barge pole. Recommend a Powerwall 3 for around £1K more instead. 

2nd_time_buyer

Hello again!

I have been off this forum for a couple of years. Previously, the hive wisdom seemed to be that home batteries did not make strong financial sense. Has anything changed?
 
Looking around it seems that you can get around 20 GW of Pylon batteries for around £4k. I guess that would be around £5.5k installed with inverter(?). The Pylon set-up appeals to me as I could DIY extend it later and last time I looked they had a solid reputation.

Is it worth paying a premium for e.g. Tesla?

For reference, we have 6.7kw of solar, a BEV, air-2-air heat pump, and am on Intelligent Go.

Cheers

energynerd99

It is touch and go whether a battery is worth the cost.

My batteries cost £8000 and the savings using Agile Octopus amount to approximately £950 per year which at 8 years payback is higher than I would really like.

I have a 3995kw (17 * Sanyo HIT N235SE10 panels) SunnyBoy 4000TL inverter system installed in August 2011 at the full pop FITT which has resulted in a payback of £30,000 to date. Annual generation varies between 3100 and 3800, the last 18 months have been spectacularly dismal.
A  Sunsynk hybrid inverter with 15.6kwh batteries was added September 2013 with year to date savings of £962. My average daily useage is 16kw which matches the battery size and looks like the right decision.

My energy useage for a detached 1950's dormer bungalow about 2000sqft is 16500 kwh for gas c/h and 5900 kwh for electricity. I have a sophisticated home control system with a large amount of IT equipment which explains the high electricity useage. Agile Octopus is what makes the battery figures add up, I daily 4pm adjust the charging times and household white goods usage based on the 30 minute Agile prices. I also take advantage of any less than zero Agile costs by running air conditoning and fan heaters overnight as neccesary. My average unit price year to date is 11.1p

I have looked at Air Source Heat Pumps and there are many reasons why they do not add up. Based on a high efficiency unit which can produce water tmperatures of 75degC I estimate it would cost me an extra £700 per year for a system that would be inferior in lots of ways to gas in providing a comfortable 20 degC home. More often than not I will only have 1 or 2 radiators requiring heat at any one time and some fan assisted plinth heaters which because of low water flow/ temperature wil not function correctly.  I cannot see how Solar panels and batteries could ever help with them, 8000 kwh of heating needs can not be met by a typical residential installation and the amount of cheaper rates available.

Equally for EVs the requirement to provide enough significant cheap power would preclude Agile and make batteries very hard to justify never mind the very high cost of them.

I have saved about 25,000 tons of CO2, which is my contribution to saving the planet and have no intention of adding the production CO2 cost of an EV car ever.