St James’s Place opinions?

st1040

Hi, we have recently been in touch with a financial Advisor (FA) that was recommended to me by my accountant, the FA is affiliated with St James’s Place. I really liked the advisor and we were about to invest some money but before that I had a quick look on the internet to find a little more info about St James’s Place and I was a little shocked at the results. I'm interested in any point of views about St James’s Place good or bad. Cards on the table I'm pretty green about Pensions and investments but savvy enough to do some digging and listening before I make any choice.
If not St James’s Place, any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

ColdIron

SJP are very expensive with a limited range of average funds. I would avoid as would most people on this board

fwor

st1040 said:

I really liked the advisor

Bear in mind that "being likeable" is an important qualification for any salesman. 

With any financial adviser, it helps if you get on well with them, but there are other major factors - such as costs - that are more important than how likeable they are.

boingy

Opinions on SJP are not good on this forum. Just search the forum for their name and have a read.

dunstonh

Hi, we have recently been in touch with a financial Advisor (FA) that was recommended to me by my accountant, the FA is affiliated with St James’s Place

If an accountant is recommending SJP then there is a very good chance that there is a fee sharing arrangement. There is no other reason for an accountant to recommend you go to a restricted salesforce that is one of the most expensive in the country.

If not St James’s Place, any recommendations? 

IFA or DIY.  Not an FA.

aroominyork

dunstonh said:

Hi, we have recently been in touch with a financial Advisor (FA) that was recommended to me by my accountant, the FA is affiliated with St James’s Place

If an accountant is recommending SJP then there is a very good chance that there is a fee sharing arrangement. There is no other reason for an accountant to recommend you go to a restricted salesforce that is one of the most expensive in the country.

If there is a fee sharing agreement between the accountant and SJP, should the accountant have disclosed it to the client when recommending SJP? And is the accountant obliged to disclose it if the client asks them now?

gm0

Family member used it.

You will not get many or any positive opinions here.  This is a money saving site.  SJP are in the expensive "category" i.e. wealth managers and "tied" Financial advisers.  In that category they are not the most expensive of all but for large and mainstream and successful businesses in the space - they have done well by raking consumers for a larger fee than is necessary for what they do and sell.  Which is readily and widely available elsewhere for less

Spoiler:  The product is not superior.  Does not in general outperform the market (for you).  Net fees.  And will underperform other similar options and portolios with lower drag from fees.  Be warned.  It may do "roughly OK market performance ish - but when you look at the detail you may well discover that you have carried more risk for the return offered than you need do elsewhere.  You take extra risk.  They get paid (more) first. 

Your sales agent may show you graphs.  Be wary.  The "comparator" used may well not be the market total return index.  It may be an assumed "typical retail fund" with an unrealistically high charge assumed into it.  They have a database of such things.  Perhaps as much as 5x the true prices to drag the comparator costs up towards their own.
If you can't move the performance line of the product to be sold up.  Move the comparator line down.  Assumptions are the name of this shell game.  It's not a lie - based on the assumptions.  A terrrible fund with a high charge probably does exist.  But nobody would buy it.  They would buy the Vanguard or BlackRock or HSBC fund in the geography/category.  At 1/5th the price.  It's just misleading if you are not paying attention to the details.  And in my view subjectively also a severe breach of trust.

FCA heavily regulate the advice process and deliverables.  So it is not a fault of SJP per se - but they (like everyone else) can't differentiate themselves much on that.  It's the same.  Other family wealth and tax planning outside the core advice will be helpful or not, needed or not, and good or not, as with any adviser.

An individual sales agent or SJP "partner" may be good or bad at customer service.  And is likely knowledgeable and trained to the same levels as "independent advisers".  And could be about to retire, lazy or a drunk.  Or a young apprentice and keen but inexperienced.  Just as with any trade and any walk of life.  Many FAs (At SJP and elsewhere) are in fact ex IFAs (the independent sort) who stopped doing this indepedently.

Know these facts and check your adviser quotes from FAs (avoid in general) and IFAs (if you need advice)

The total market annual price to DIY a portfolio of mainstream funds of stocks and bonds - broadly passive - market return.  Is about 0.3% pa though you can do it a bit better to around 0.2% after which it gets harder to trim more fat.  Jumping around for cashback and such like. Total cost is platform (product fee), fund managment, transactions (trade fees), initial charges (which are mostly 0 in that world). 

A similar mainstream portfolio thing with advice is 0.5% pa more (0.8% pa).  And may carry a (possibly capped) - ~1% portfolio initial charge to pay the adviser to setup for you and do admin and transfers etc.  

You can if you like take on more aggressive and active investments and star fund managers add a bit of active fund management cost to these numbers.

By contrast - SJP now sell the Polaris fund range to many retail customers other than high net worth. 
Check the fact sheets for Polaris funds and you will discover they contain significant amounts of iShares index tracking funds.  So the SJP product content is converging to an extent on what you can do in the general market.  There is nothing that special about Polaris.   The traditional product was more complex. More discretionary fund management layers. More obfuscation.  More expensive still.   SJP have cut fees (a bit), have cut costs (more), and are largely driving their profit, not your investment return net fees by these actions

This comparator 0.3 and 0.8.  Is against the "total" costs SJP show you in the contract.  Be CAREFUL.  The agent may talk about "our fees" (meaning the advice bit) and not the mothership and Polaris piece when talking about that.  What you want is to compare the TOTAL fees.  Fund fees embedded in unit prices (fund management bit).  The SJP product fees, entry and exit, and admin - the lot.   Ask questions about the total fees for advice and the product.  Make an assumption (for initial charge) about how long to spread that across).  They may squirm.  Or (if ethically better) answer fairly immediately and openly and you will then see the "premium" levy applied to the market price of 0.8% to do the same thing. With advice.  Whether that premium, every year forever - is worth the effort avoided of not DIY or shopping for better is a decision only you can make.  They are successful for a reason

SJP charge "early exit" fees as a levy for management fees they expected to get.  If you attempt to leave. A rare provider that still has this bad practice.  FCA are on the road to ending it market wide. It recently stopped for new customers but applies to existing.  Instead the SJP plan is now to levy an "on entry" charge (initial charge) on ALL payments in to investments.  Check your contract carefully and apply it to your circumstances and planned use

.
There are better products acessible via independent advice at a lower price.  Finding the adviser - that you develop trust with.  Requires some effort.

Stubod

..loads of threads on here re SJP..almost all are negative, (due to charges).....do a search...

dunstonh

aroominyork said:

dunstonh said:

Hi, we have recently been in touch with a financial Advisor (FA) that was recommended to me by my accountant, the FA is affiliated with St James’s Place

If an accountant is recommending SJP then there is a very good chance that there is a fee sharing arrangement. There is no other reason for an accountant to recommend you go to a restricted salesforce that is one of the most expensive in the country.

If there is a fee sharing agreement between the accountant and SJP, should the accountant have disclosed it to the client when recommending SJP? And is the accountant obliged to disclose it if the client asks them now?

If it is an official arrangement, then typically, the accountant would take nothing.    We have an accountant who refers people to us, and it is professional without payment.   However, an unofficial arrangement where it's an "individual" making a personal referral rather than a professional referral would, metaphorically, allow brown envelopes.

Beddie

st1040 said:

Hi, we have recently been in touch with a financial Advisor (FA) that was recommended to me by my accountant, the FA is affiliated with St James’s Place. I really liked the advisor and we were about to invest some money but before that I had a quick look on the internet to find a little more info about St James’s Place and I was a little shocked at the results. I'm interested in any point of views about St James’s Place good or bad. Cards on the table I'm pretty green about Pensions and investments but savvy enough to do some digging and listening before I make any choice.
If not St James’s Place, any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

What do you need financial advice for? You could probably do it yourself with some guidance from the people on here. If you do need advice, look up local IFAs (make sure they are independent) make some phone calls and see how you get on. They do not charge for an initial chat.

zagfles

Or use robo, you don't necessarily need individually tailored advice any more than you need individually tailored clothes. The choice isn't just between DIY or IFA like we keep being told. See Best SIPP: Build a low cost DIY pension - MoneySavingExpert