Huge electricity bill because we could not access our meter

Spoonie_Turtle

MeteredOut said:

OP, can you post details of the Octopus bill. What date is on the opening reading, and how does that compare to your entry date? And does it say it is an actual reading or an estimate.

If it does match your entry date, and is an actual reading, I'd suggest the previous occupants (or LL) submitted a closing reading for the previous occupants and the bill is correct.

If the date is earlier than your entry date, at the very least you should be able to provide your tenancy agreement to Octopus to show your entry date and get the bill reduced pro-rata to only include usage after that date, with the remainder for Octopus to pick up with the LL and/or previous occupant.

Unless they gave a falsely low reading.  [Impossible to prove though, unfortunately - only possible to prove it's correct, if they took a photograph of the meter when giving the reading.]

MP1995

Another life lesson, we all get them from time to time.

Some good advice above about when the last reading and date were as tnats your bargaining chip.

BikingBud

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

I didn't say commit fraud, I said give an accurate reading and start there.

You said:

1.  Give a start reading that you know is not accurate.

and

2.  Tell the supplier that you were not responsible for usage that you know at least 2 months' worth was actually yours.

Both are fraudulent.

Wow - Quite a skew you are applying there. I find that extremely distasteful. Do you often accuse people of committing fraud?

But why even cry fraud when all we know is that a reading was taken at some point 2 months after the OP moved in.

I don't know if it the reading is accurate or not, you don't know either, and even if the OP does, when was the last actual meter read? We do not know and without that knowledge we cannot give a perspective about that 2 months consumption, be it 2kWh or 200kWh or 2000kWh and how it might compare to any established trend. 

We don't know the previous read and given what we have been advised, any assumption about the bill and to whom the consumption falls is merely that a SWAG, as the trend established by previous tenants might be based upon a very low usage or having a cannabis grow. The OP's trend will be wholly different.

And if you do not know the previous history, how do you suggest the OP unlocks this? Do you suggest they just suck up the fact that somebody might be defrauding them?

Take out the known element, the SC, based upon start of tenancy, and see what is left.

Telling Octopus and the LL/EA that you are content to pay the bill from the read that you can confirm and that other parties need to assess where the other costs fall, is not fraud. Disputes over readings are quite common and there are approved routes to get estimates and deal with debts from delinquent previous tenants and account holders, the EA must take responsibility for gross incompetence and their failure.

I would say again its a logical step to ensuring the OP is not getting done over the barrel!

You call it fraud but if you want to start bandying accusations like that it is a very high bar to prove.

Scot_39

Does the ginger energy include your hot water costs or just radiators  - does the normal electric cover say a cold fed electric shower.

£215 over c2.5m - £80pm for 2 - is on the high side - but not unbelievably so - depending on exact kit and water split.

What was that in kWh.

And what were the exact dates on the bill re your tennancy start date (the date you became legally responsible for bills).

And what were your July and current readings / do the maths and compare respective  kWh use per week as a guide.

But for future reference- always get your own reading.

A dishonest previous tennant, landlord agent etc could even lie or fail to submit and leave you liable for £xx.



It's perfectly normal to have seperate electric for normal use - as well as communal heat (and hot water?).

[Some even have seperate gas as well.]

It's just many - won't have any direct experience of it.

You could argue the agent didn't  make that clear - but you arguably should also have been aware of the possibility.

You say there was no reading with handover docs - but were Octopus or a seperate supply noted in any way.  Was a section of handover docs left blank or explicitly excluded - e.g. did it say not applicable ?

[Agents can I am sad to say be quite variable quality.  Some my siblings kids dealt with in uni towns were woeful.

A recent post complained their agent had listed both suppliers  as simply EOn - rather than EOn Heat (a hest network provider) and EOn Next (normal domestic supplier)  on his handover doc. And so similarly failed to register for both and faced a large catch up bill.]

One is missing info - the other a clear exclusion.

[Many people would have - especially after media horror bill articles - been wary and so probing of exact setup and in particular the current energy rates - possibly even avoiding  renting such a property - as communal heating is poorly regulated (no Ofgem cap, no EPG discount).

And pricing has varied wildly for many - some paid weekly wholesale linked commercial rates at the time - but with some only now playing catch up with  crisis peak style rates as landlords lock into commercial suppliers rates or apply back adjustments to estimated rates where contracts allow - although that retrospective cost recovery shouldnt impact you.]

BarelySentientAI

BikingBud said:

BarelySentientAI said:

BikingBud said:

I didn't say commit fraud, I said give an accurate reading and start there.

You said:

1.  Give a start reading that you know is not accurate.

and

2.  Tell the supplier that you were not responsible for usage that you know at least 2 months' worth was actually yours.

Both are fraudulent.

Wow - Quite a skew you are applying there. I find that extremely distasteful. Do you often accuse people of committing fraud?

But why even cry fraud when all we know is that a reading was taken at some point 2 months after the OP moved in.

I don't know if it the reading is accurate or not, you don't know either, and even if the OP does, when was the last actual meter read? We do not know and without that knowledge we cannot give a perspective about that 2 months consumption, be it 2kWh or 200kWh or 2000kWh and how it might compare to any established trend. 

We don't know the previous read and given what we have been advised, any assumption about the bill and to whom the consumption falls is merely that a SWAG, as the trend established by previous tenants might be based upon a very low usage or having a cannabis grow. The OP's trend will be wholly different.

And if you do not know the previous history, how do you suggest the OP unlocks this? Do you suggest they just suck up the fact that somebody might be defrauding them?

Take out the known element, the SC, based upon start of tenancy, and see what is left.

Telling Octopus and the LL/EA that you are content to pay the bill from the read that you can confirm and that other parties need to assess where the other costs fall, is not fraud. Disputes over readings are quite common and there are approved routes to get estimates and deal with debts from delinquent previous tenants and account holders, the EA must take responsibility for gross incompetence and their failure.

I would say again its a logical step to ensuring the OP is not getting done over the barrel!

You call it fraud but if you want to start bandying accusations like that it is a very high bar to prove.

Which part of 'tell them a reading you took 2 months after moving in was the start reading from 2 months ago, and that everything before that reading was someone else's responsibility' do you believe is accurate and truthful?

Deliberately providing inaccurate information to gain a financial advantage is fraud.  No skew needed.

Saying 'here is my reading from today, how do we work out sensibly what the last 2 months charges should be because those are the ones I am responsible for' is accurate and truthful.  That is not what you advised.

tryingtosurvive101

MeteredOut said:

OP, can you post details of the Octopus bill. What date is on the opening reading, and how does that compare to your entry date? And does it say it is an actual reading or an estimate.

If it does match your entry date, and is an actual reading, I'd suggest the previous occupants (or LL) submitted a closing reading for the previous occupants and the bill is correct.

If the date is earlier than your entry date, at the very least you should be able to provide your tenancy agreement to Octopus to show your entry date and get the bill reduced pro-rata to only include usage after that date, with the remainder for Octopus to pick up with the LL and/or previous occupant.

So it is our entry date and it is an estimated reading- however we did not actually start living in the property until a week later as the property was in such a bad state. 

BarelySentientAI

tryingtosurvive101 said:

MeteredOut said:

OP, can you post details of the Octopus bill. What date is on the opening reading, and how does that compare to your entry date? And does it say it is an actual reading or an estimate.

If it does match your entry date, and is an actual reading, I'd suggest the previous occupants (or LL) submitted a closing reading for the previous occupants and the bill is correct.

If the date is earlier than your entry date, at the very least you should be able to provide your tenancy agreement to Octopus to show your entry date and get the bill reduced pro-rata to only include usage after that date, with the remainder for Octopus to pick up with the LL and/or previous occupant.

So it is our entry date and it is an estimated reading- however we did not actually start living in the property until a week later as the property was in such a bad state. 

Unfortunate.  You might be able to get Octopus to agree the estimated reading was wrong based on calculating backwards from your next few actual readings (give them regularly from now) - but that isn't an immediate solution because you will need to wait until you have a usage history on the account nor is it something I think they have to do.

Scot_39

Again the fact it was estimated is entirely down to you not providing an actual reading to them.

They are under no legal obligation to correct it - but some energy companies will do as described in say the event of a faulty meter - but in that case thats perhaps as it's their responsibility to provide a working meter.

But it would appear neither did the landlord or the agent on their behalf - at the start and end of any void period - before your entry date - (or the previous tennant at the end of their lease if no void period) - which is always advised to similarly protect their exposure - should tennants try submit a false entry reading.

During that week was any remedial work carried out that could have used a lot of electricity - that you might then be able to negotiate with landlord / agent over.

That could have included plug in heaters and dehumidifiers if damp part of the issues.

Did you pay rent for that week - these days likely to be as significant as the bill you now dispute - let alone any error in it - or have the lease start date amended in any way ?

But again without actual readings it will be difficult to prove.

You seem reluctant to give any actual readings from that bill or since your July reading to now - to see how far out it may have been - in say kWh per week etc before and after you started taking readings.

The estimate might have been fairly accurate - if based on a meter reading provided just days or even weeks earlier - in a nominally empty flat.  

[Edit - for instance with large energy pricecswings millions were encourage to give readings within a few days of price changes - some suppliers then used those to provide a more accurate estimate than they might have otherwise on the 1st of month new prices came in].

So I'd just pay the bill and as above chalk it up as an important life lesson.

That taking measurements on day 1 (with digital photos if possible) - for all metered services (gas, electric, increasingly these days water etc) - you will be responsible for when you become responsible for them - an important lesson - when renting or buying.