DCB Legal Court Hearing 28th August

InconspicuousSheep21

Not submitted and the time has passed. I'll just have to present arguments based on my defence and WS which should suffice.

Gr1pr

No, you carry on as described above in other replies, but taking onboard that you state the truth, and by you stating that managing agents are or were landowners is not true IMHO 

Use the correct terminology, managing agent on behalf of the currently unknown absentee landowner. Plus that authority must flow from the actual landowner through the managing agent to the parking company  (. JLL & CBRE are both managing agents. )

And mention that you believe that those promises and statements that you relied on as an employee appear to indicate that promissory estoppel is relevant 

InconspicuousSheep21

You're right, I don't have enough knowledge surrounding JLL and CBRE to make those claims of the contract lacking validity which could and would probably screw me further.

My narrative remains the same, I was made aware by my employer that I was allowed to park on the Land and complied with the instructions given throughout the duration of my employment. If I was not permitted to park on the Land I would have had approximately 106 PCNs upon conclusion of my employment but that's not the case. My evidence holds some weight, I just need to be able to describe and explain clearly to the Judge why I did nothing wrong.

Gr1pr

You can allege that your parking exemption was supposedly in place between the employer and the managing agent at the time of your employment, so you were led to believe that it had been agreed by all parties, indicating promissory estoppel, for all employees 

Leave it to the judge to check the paperwork, or lack of paperwork, including authority flowing from the landowner 

My main other point was dont call a spade a brick, just because both are on a building site, earlier on above you were stating that those managing agents were Landowners, if you don't know that to be true, dont say it !

I know that they tend to be managing agents, just like a travel agent doesn't own the hotel you are staying in, doesn't own the airline you are flying with either,  just an intermediary working on behalf of them, passing on a service . So 5 & 6 on the previous page were incorrect, prompting my replies 

Coupon-mad

InconspicuousSheep21 said:

Not submitted and the time has passed. I'll just have to present arguments based on my defence and WS which should suffice.

Yes - I think you are ready.

InconspicuousSheep21

Hi all, me again!

Is it worth contesting the PCNs with Head Office of where I worked asking them to request the Landowner cancelling the original PCNs? Is it worth a shot despite the contract between UKPC and the Landowner stating the following:

The Client:

• require The Contractor to keep to the British Parking Association Approved Operator

Scheme Code of Practice. The current version can be accessed via

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Practice-and-Compliance-Monitoring;

• accept the above key terms together with the terms of the JLL Terms and Conditions in force

at the date of this Contract;

• agree that if you request any change to the Services and/or any of the above key terms, the

change will only be effective if and when The Contractor confirms the change in writing and,

where required by The Contractor, if and when The Client and The Contractor have entered into a written agreement confirming adjustments to the Charges and/or Parking Charges in order to take account of such change;

• may request within 14 days from the time the Parking Charge has been issued, that we cancel the specific Parking Charge from time to time based on UKPC’s reasonable assessment on a case by case basis, provided that these shall not, in any calendar month, exceed 10% of the total number of the Parking Charges issued by us for parking infringements at the relevant Premises during that month. No cancellation requests can be considered once a parking charge notice has been passed to Debt Recovery;

• agree to update and maintain an exemption list of vehicle registrations and bring this to the attention of UKPC in a timely manner prior to the Parking Charge being issued. The Restrictions will apply to all motor vehicles including those on the exemption list

• confirm that you authorise The Contractor to take such action, including but not limited to instigating court proceedings, as they consider appropriate to recover the Parking Charges due from drivers (or owners) who park Vehicles in breach of the Restrictions; and If you subsequently decide to revoke this authorization, you must notify UKPC in writing and allow UKPC to conclude any court action already in progress

• provide the Contractor with information as may reasonably be required from time to time for the purpose of court proceedings, and ensure information is accurate in all material respects

• confirm that you are its appointed agent in relation to the Premises and have sufficient authority to, and give permission for The Contractor to levy the Parking Charges on the Premises;

• agree that title of Equipment remains with The Contractor unless and until sold to the Client at which point the title for hardware only will pass to the client

It’s just that I really don’t fancy going to court and facing the money thieving ********. I don’t feel prepared in the slightest and don’t know where to begin with drafting a statement/speech for court

Johnersh

Not read this thread fully as it’s mostly a done deal by now.

The email would be better contemporaneously of course, but the main thing is to have it. If it is correctly described in a WS I don’t see how it carries less weight than evidence submitted by a paralegal with no site knowledge, who simply repeats the information held on her pc, rather than any knowledge of her own.

There is a nice logic. No one would work on a retail park if they risked epic fines day after day. It follows that D must have had the reassurance he states.  It’d be nice if there were payslips, rotas or diary entries etc for the dates of the PCNs but that seems unlikely.

A further question is what evidence is there that C has sought to check the o/p’s employee status and/or whether they admit employees are exempted?

there are 4 elements to the argument 

1. is D liable for the primary PCN sum (usually £100 each)
2. Is D liable for the secondary PCN sum (usually £70 each)
3. Is C entitled to interest and on what sum?
4. costs.

even if the o/p goes down on 1 there is still a substantial saving to be had booting out 2. Interest will always be wrongly if it is calculated on the basis of 1+2 from the date of the parking event. If 2 is disallowed there’s probably scope to ask the court to exercise discretion not to award interest at all in the circumstances.

Coupon-mad

InconspicuousSheep21 said:

Hi all, me again!

...I really don’t fancy going to court and facing the money thieving ********. I don’t feel prepared in the slightest and don’t know where to begin with drafting a statement/speech for court

You don't take a statement or speech.

Just take a file of paper printed versions of your defence, your WS and their WS, or if you are more relaxed with online files, take your laptop (fully charged).

DO NOT agree to a "chat in a side room" with the scammers' legal rep beforehand and DON'T be intimidated by anything they sneer.  Go into the hearing room confidently.

The Judge will be kind and will lead the discussion and ask questions.  It's not as scary as you think, honestly.  You'll win.

1505grandad

For info the new single CoP (hopefully a proper regulated CoP from Government will be available soon) states:-

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/NEW Redesigned Documents/sectorsingleCodeofPractice.pdf

"Relationship with landowner
14.1. Where controlled land is being managed on behalf of a landowner(s), before a parking charge can be issued written confirmation must be obtained by the parking operator from the landowner(s) covering: 

e) the parking terms and conditions that are to be applied by the parking operator, including as appropriate the duration of free parking permitted, parking tariffs, and specific permissions and exemptions, e.g. for staff, residents or those stopping for short periods such as taxi and minicab drivers, delivery drivers and couriers;"

Castle

InconspicuousSheep21 said:

Hi all, me again!

Is it worth contesting the PCNs with Head Office of where I worked asking them to request the Landowner cancelling the original PCNs? Is it worth a shot despite the contract between UKPC and the Landowner stating the following:

The Client:

• confirm that you are its appointed agent in relation to the Premises and have sufficient authority to, and give permission for The Contractor to levy the Parking Charges on the Premises;

Since JLL haven't been the "appointed agent" since 2021 that is no longer true.