ParkingEye Parking Charge Notice (PCN) - University Hospital of Wales (UHW) Cardiff.

JonesTheSteam149

Hello,

I am wondering if somebody may be able to help or advise.

I recently recieved a PCN for £70 from ParkingEye in the University Hospital of Wales in Cardiff where they have claimed I parked in a staff only parking area for just 32 minutes and this was captured by some impressivly grainy ANPR.

I would like to add, I am not a monster who willfully parks in healthcare only parking spaces. On the whole the staff floors of the car park at UHW are usually extremely empty for some reason.

So without going into every boring detail I have my suspicions about this incident.

As soon as I was aware of the PCN I did submit a rather amaturish appeal to ParkingEye just to stop the clock on the fine increasing. I fully expect my appeal to fail as I have read of others online with far more heartbreaking stories than mine having PCN appeals denied at UHW.

As these situations tend to annoy me, I get strangely determined to get to the bottom of things like this so on the weekend I started gathering evidence at the site and without going into details, I think ParkingEye have in some key areas (and probably for some time) not been following the BPA approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice at the UHW. So my next level appeal I believe will be to POPLA where I now have far more evidence to supply.

Now this is the question I have been building up to:

I am obvioulsy looking to get my PCN overturned but if I am sucessful with my findings, what would be my best route to hopefully ensure others could possibly get their PCNs overturned after also being trapped by some possibly questionable code breaking tactics?

I am planning to contact my MP regardless of the outcome but would I have to attend court for any judgement to become binding in any meaninful way?

Gr1pr

Does the PCN comply with POFA. ?  Or not. ? The newbies sticky thread in announcements explains how to check 

That site is an infamous site, so bear that in mind 

Plan A is the best option here, it always is, so PAKS or Estate management at the trust, but don't expect miracles 

POPLA is a gamble, but not binding 

The BPA is a trade body, so won't accept complaints without you complaining to the parking company First 

Court is a lottery, especially bad for you in South Wales 

If you lost in court, its binding on you to avoid a CCJ and credit issues etc 

If you won in court it doesn't help anyone else because it doesn't set a legal precedent 

Coupon-mad

Yep, your case will set no precedent.

Have their photos proved the car was actually in a staff area?  Often that is not clear from an 'in and out' photo and you could put them to proof (which they can't do).

1505grandad

"Plan A is the best option here, it always is, so PAKS....."

If PALS email required can be found here:-

https://cavuhb.nhs.wales/contact-list/general/pals-patient-advice-and-liaison-service/

JonesTheSteam149

Thank you to everyone for replying.

From what I can see the PCN does comply with POFA. The only question mark over that would be when I actually recieved the PCN as I don't have a letterbox and with everything going on (and not expecting to be issued a fine) I had not checked my mailbox much recently so have no real idea when it arrived.

The date of event on the PCN was 05/07/2024 and it was issued on 11/07/2024. I first became aware of the PCN on 31/07/2024 and responded immediately.

As the ANPR 'evidence' is so awful and the time period is so short I have asked for further photographic evidence which I have not yet recieved a reply about. That said I understand this is just an 'in and out' ANPR system so it is highly unlikely that there will be any photographic evidence of my car actually being parked.

I have been scanning an number of forums but have largely tied myself up in knots but I is there anything now in respect to how material loss to ParkingEye is calculated? As on most days the staff area (where I am alledged to have parked) can regularly have 500+ spaces free so my £2.18 a minute charge seems a bit OTT at the moment.

The people I have been visiting have very severe, long term health issues so I have parked at the UHW more times than I would care to guess over the past few years so cannot remember this particular instance amoung the many. That said, every previous parking attempt has happened without issue so I must have been doing something right all those other times.

Back to this strange 32 mins duration though, I timed my trip to the ward which is approx 10-11min walk from the car park one way. For the ANPR to be accurate in this case I would have had to walked to the ward, then spent only 10 minutes with the people I was visiting and then immediately leave and return to my car which to me does not make any sense at all.

Is anyone aware if the accuracy of these ANPR systems has ever successfully been called into question?

Now I have begun picking at this scab I am getting an understanding of the reputation ParkingEye have in the UHW and it is pretty shocking and with my tolerance for companies operating in the way they do when people are at their most vulnerable is jarring to say the least.

Gr1pr

The NTK PCN letter was presumed to be delivered 2 business days after posting, regardless of your letter collection arrangements 

Parking Eye rarely, if ever, have evidence of parking time, just time on site, so time on site becomes the important thing 

Either the PCN was generated by ANPR cameras, as in and out times, or by MNPR by a person 

ANPR is considered to be about 80% accurate, so if course its been called into question over the last 15 years 

The Parking Eye versus Beavis case 9 years ago put paid to any material loss arguments, although that was centred on a free to park car park, not a pay to park or hospital car park, but the arguments about loss etc disappeared 9 years ago plus that Beavis case was about £85 , not £70, but even when the new MHCLG CoP arrives next year the £70 default tariff could apply. Throwing trash or butts on the floor can result in similar council penalties 

Indigo was much worse, probably why the trust had a rethink and employed Parking Eye instead, after the Indigo court cases against staff and public 

JonesTheSteam149

Gr1pr said:

The NTK PCN letter was presumed to be delivered 2 business days after posting, regardless of your letter collection arrangements 

Parking Eye rarely, if ever, have evidence of parking time, just time on site, so time on site becomes the important thing 

Either the PCN was generated by ANPR cameras, as in and out times, or by MNPR by a person 

ANPR is considered to be about 80% accurate, so if course its been called into question over the last 15 years 

The Parking Eye versus Beavis case 9 years ago put paid to any material loss arguments, although that was centred on a free to park car park, not a pay to park or hospital car park, but the arguments about loss etc disappeared 9 years ago plus that Beavis case was about £85 , not £70, but even when the new MHCLG CoP arrives next year the £70 default tariff could apply. Throwing trash or butts on the floor can result in similar council penalties 

Indigo was much worse, probably why the trust had a rethink and employed Parking Eye instead, after the Indigo court cases against staff and public 

Hi Gr1pr,

I am sorry but I didn't make it clear in my earlier posts that the UHW car park is now also a free car park for up to 2 hours which can then be extended further using machines found inside the hospital.

So in this instance I never actually paid to park it was more a question about the disproportional level of the invoice for what was an honest mistake made for a very short period of time in a very empty staff car park.

Could that be why ParkingEye tactics at UHW are so questionable because they do not make any revenue from parking, they only survive by issuing PCNs?

Thank you for the information on the Beavis case which I will try to look up if you feel this might be relevant to what has happned to me.

Gr1pr

Most parking companies obtain revenue from the PCNs rather than the apps or machines or actual staff on site 

A lot of payments go to the people or company who contracted with the parking company, including hospital trusts 

The whole topic about private parking companies is that they generally make money from the people who break the parking contract rules, especially where parking is free, as in the Beavis case in 2015

I suggest that you study the Beavis case which went to the Supreme Court, so is a precedent, plus the Indigo court case in Cardiff against dozens or hundreds of NHS workers etc at UHW 

As I said earlier, the Beavis case killed off the disproportionate argument 9 years ago ( it was known as.  Not a genuine pre estimate of loss, or gpeol.  )

You seem fairly new to the whole topics, but its been going on for more than a decade 

Coupon-mad

It is always all about the PCNs for this rogue industry, and that is what the Government must change as part of the statutory regime.  They have to issue a certain number to make the profit they seek to rinse from each site.

Read this (an oldie but a goodie):
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/12/parkingeye-employee-reveals-their-rape.html?m=1

There you go. ParkingEye's approach...from an ex-employee, spilling the beans.

As the ANPR 'evidence' is so awful and the time period is so short I have asked for further photographic evidence which I have not yet received a reply about. That said I understand this is just an 'in and out' ANPR system so it is highly unlikely that there will be any photographic evidence of my car actually being parked.

As I said.  You can probably win it at POPLA based on that lack of evidence of where the car ended up parked.

They do not have to prove with photos that it DID park (because the in/out pics are enough to suggest that the car was parked between those times) but you can call into question where.

Read this one too:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/03/parkingeye-lose-in-court-accuse-drivers.html?m=1

Could it be that one image is you arriving past the entrance camera at the main entrance and the supposed 'out' image half an hour later is in fact just the car traversing the various ward areas looking for a space and you never did park in the staff area? Maybe you dropped off a passenger in the 20 min drop off bays them drive round elsewhere to park?

What do the lines on the road look like (see the second linked case above, which exposed ParkingEye evidence in a large hospital as flawed).   On each visit your car will have likely been picked up over a dozen times by various cameras in various areas. Have they proved that the in picture was taken in the same area as the 'out' one?

OR is one image dated Monday and the next one Tuesday or something (two visits?).  Look at the two pics &try to work out where they were taken.

Oh and forget the idea of asking how they calculate loss. That has no legs AT ALL.

Gr1pr

The above reminds me of what I think was the Barnet hospital saga that I think Bargepole or Mr mustard were involved in several years ago 

UHW has always been a complicated site to manage, as veterans here will know  ( and the courts in Cardiff and Swansea have not helped either. )

Mx Jones,  welcome to the murky world of private parking. !

Coupon-mad

Gr1pr said:

The above reminds me of what I think was the Barnet hospital saga that I think Bargepole or Mr mustard were involved in several years ago 

UHW has always been a complicated site to manage, as veterans here will know  ( and the courts in Cardiff and Swansea have not helped either. )

We cross posted. I linked the Barnet case.