C.U.P Enforcement Fine - Appeal not approved

ramagates

Had "Parking Charge Notice to Registered Keeper" - see attached. 





I have responded with the below (Thanks to the community here) and then received a letter on 29th July (attached to confirm the driver. Wonder if you could help

Re PCN number: XXXX(Reg XXXX)

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner. The keeper was not driving.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Thanks,

XXXXXX






What should I do next?

Grizebeck

go back to them and say this an appeal by the keeper
either cancel the ticket, issue a popla code and if they dont you will forward this to the BPA 

ramagates

Thank you, wonder should I use the full template or I wait for the popla code? Also they purposely hide the disable badge on the car when they send the photos (is this will be relavent). And wondet right of access to (1972 xxx) will apply to unlocked open public properties (this is infront of a shop in high street)

Grizebeck

no what your saying has no relevance
you tell them to deal with the appeal as the keeper (as is your right) you have no need to declare the driver and that their attempts to get around the lack of keeper liability wont work
Then see what happens next

fisherjim

ramagates said:

Thank you, wonder should I use the full template or I wait for the popla code? Also they purposely hide the disable badge on the car when they send the photos (is this will be relavent). And wondet right of access to (1972 xxx) will apply to unlocked open public properties (this is infront of a shop in high street)

Sorry that makes no sense.

LDast

In layman's terms... You are the registered keeper. You are known to CUPE. The driver, a completely separate legal entity in civil law, is unknown to CUPE. Only the unknown driver is liable for the alleged debt. The known keeper is under no legal obligation to identify the unknown driver to an unregulated private parking company and must decline to do so.

So, unless the PCs fully complies with PoFA (it doesn't) they cannot transfer liability from the unknown driver to the known keeper and they cannot infer or assume that the known keeper was also the unknown driver.

So, you can either ignore their mendacious response and wait for their predictable rejection and use the POPLA code they are obliged to provide to appeal and point out their failure to identify the driver who is the only person they can legally pursue, which means that the PCN has been issued incorrectly or, for a bit of Schadenfreude, point out their mendaciousness and intellectual malnourishment and for them to get on with it and issue the POPLA code whilst you will also be reporting them to the BPA for their fraudulent activity in trying to con the keeper into identifying the driver when there is absolutely no legal requirement to do so.

ramagates

Thank you for your feedbacks. appreciated. I prefer not to ignore and debt collectors knocking in my door. here is my response based on above, what do you think? Please do suggest alterations as required 

Dear CUP Enforcement,

I am writing in response to your letter dated xx-xx-2024 regarding the above mentioned Parking Charge Notice (PCN). I have appeal to the PCN as the registered keeper which is with you.

I request that you either cancel the ticket or issue a POPLA code. Should you fail to do so, I will escalate this matter to the British Parking Association (BPA).

The driver, a completely separate legal entity in civil law. I am under no legal obligation to identify the driver to an unregulated private parking company. Unless the PCN fully complies with the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA), you cannot transfer liability from the driver to the known keeper, nor can you infer or assume that the keeper was also the driver. This means that the PCN has been issued incorrectly.

Alternatively, you can issue the POPLA code now, and I will also report your actions to the BPA for attempting to fraudulently con the keeper into identifying the driver, which is not legally required.

I look forward to your prompt response resolving this matter.

Regards,
XXX

Grizebeck

That will do fine
But debt collectors don't come knocking
Why would you think that 

LDast

No debt collectors or bailiffs can simply come knocking at your door so please get that notion out of your head. These unregulated private parking companies and their debt collector friends rely on their victims being low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree and believing, just as you do, that they are somehow at risk of a CCJ or bailiffs etc simply showing up and then pooping their pants and paying up.

Nothing of the sort can happen and requires a lengthy process including a court claim, hearing and having a defence rejected. Highly unlikely and even if it was the case, as long as the judgment was paid within 28 days, there would be no CCJ on your record. We have around a 99% success rate on here as long as the victim follows the advice and understands the process as fully described in the Newbies/FAQ thread.

I'm not sure English is your first language so I would suggest a slight alteration for your initial appeal:

This is an appeal as the registered keeper of the vehicle with VRM [VRM] for PCN no.: [PCN number] issued on [date]. As the registered keeper I decline to identify the driver as I am under no legal obligation to do so to an unregulated private parking company.

Your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with all the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) and therefore, you cannot transfer liability for the alleged charge to me, the keeper.  Only the driver, who I decline to identify, can be responsible for any alleged debt.

I suggest you pursue the driver. Please cancel this PCN or issue me with a POPLA code where you can waste your money on an assessment where we both know you will lose as I am not the person liable for the charge.

ramagates

Thank you and will amend the response and send. I was worried as the letter says failing to provide drivers detail resulting in "further costs being incurred and CUP Enforcement, reluctantly instructing a debt collection agency to collect any sum due."

Gr1pr

Just because they mention it, doesn't make it true. ( Perhaps they lied. ?  )

That debt collector can certainly be employed to try to collect it, the debt collectors are powerless but can send scary looking letters in the hope that people are scared and pay up

They don't say anything about knocking on people's doors, simply because its not true 

Scary looking letters are hamster bedding, nobody should read them, or take them seriously, its blather, scare mongering, empty threats