Winter fuel payment suggestion

Brian3357

Martin suggested that the winter fuel allowance could be determined by the government using council tax bands a to d to allocate an allowance for pensioners. 

I feel this  criteria is unfair. Just because a pensioner lives in an F band, doesn't mean they have more disposable incomse. Indeed often the opposite as the house is feaer to run. Asset rich but cash poor! Surely a fairer method is possible 

elsien

I don’t think a higher band house means that the house is necessarily more expensive to run, does it? It’s perfectly possible for it to be a smaller well insulated house, just in a more expensive area. 

Mr.Generous

Fairness doesn't come into it with benefit payments, when you consider there are people who have paid more tax in 1 year than I've paid in my lifetime and they won't get the allowance that doesn't sound fair to me. The logical progression from this is to say those who have a high income from a self funded pension no longer get the state pension.

Qyburn

The criteria and values were announced in July. Do people think that's going to change, or was that just a bit of speculation to get more publicity.

Personally I think these hand outs are a bad idea anyway, the basic allowances like Pension Credit etc should be set at a level that covers all living costs. These handouts set an expectation that whenever something goes up in price, the Government should pay out subsidies. 

As we can't have gas I'm less in touch with the whole price cap thing, but what is the best guess on prices for the coming Winter, compared to 23/24 and 22/23?

MP1995

Brian3357 said:

Martin suggested that the winter fuel allowance could be determined by the government using council tax bands a to d to allocate an allowance for pensioners. 

I feel this  criteria is unfair. Just because a pensioner lives in an F band, doesn't mean they have more disposable incomse. Indeed often the opposite as the house is feaer to run. Asset rich but cash poor! Surely a fairer method is possible 

I suspect the reposte to that is then they can downsize to a smaller more energy efficient home as surely being a pensioner they own their Band E/F and above house outright.

Financial, and retirement planning is severely lacking with help and these are some of the tough decisions to take early when becoming a pensioner and planning for the future.

Ildhund

Sorry to slide off-piste for a moment, so feel free to ignore

I was distracted by the mention of bands A to D. Feel free to ignore

I was thinking 'mine's F, so surely I'm more deserving of help than someone with an A'.
Then I realized that the OP was referring to council tax, while I was fixated on EPC. Two government schemes giving properties ratings, admittedly for different purposes. But even so, don't people agree that it would be helpful if those who apply ratings were to stick to some sort of universal rule, like A = best or highest and anything else is inferior? Like efficiency ratings for electrical equipment - A (best) to G (worst) or 'A'-level results (A to E).

[Don't get me started on star ratings ...]


    

zxzxzx

⬆️3️⃣*️⃣ POST!

matelodave

I still struggle with the concept that someone who works or worked, paid NI and taxes, saved some money, subscribed to a pension and bought their own house and is paying tax on his earnings or pension payments should be subsidising anyone who did none of those things.  

Whereas the person who did none of that gets a pension which is topped up to the same level as someone who actually paid NI but, unlike the person who paid his NI also gets the add ons, such as housing benefit, council tax benefit, winter fuel allowance, free glasses and dental care plus whatever else is being given away (cheap broadband etc). and will probably get care payments or care paid for as well, where the person who worked for it all will have to watch it all evaporate if the time comes.

My mates wife has dementia and needs help. He is 87 and she is 84 but because they both worked and have some savings the only help they can get is around £70 a week attendance allowance which doesn't go ever so far towards the £60 a day which they have to pay for a drop in carer twice a day.

Social Services said come back when all the money has run out and we'll reappraise the situation but until then you are on your own.

They will also lose the £300 WFA as they don't get pension credit - Doesn't really seem fair does it.

NedS

Brian3357 said:

Martin suggested that the winter fuel allowance could be determined by the government using council tax bands a to d to allocate an allowance for pensioners. 

I feel this  criteria is unfair. Just because a pensioner lives in an F band, doesn't mean they have more disposable incomse. Indeed often the opposite as the house is feaer to run. Asset rich but cash poor! Surely a fairer method is possible 

Fair to whom? The tax payer or the asset rich pensioner?

I fear the government's response to the asset rich pensioner would be to sell your band F house, down size and reallocate your wealth more evenly across housing and income generation to live within your means rather than expecting the tax payer to support you to continue to live beyond your means.

matelodave

NedS said:

Brian3357 said:

Martin suggested that the winter fuel allowance could be determined by the government using council tax bands a to d to allocate an allowance for pensioners. 

I feel this  criteria is unfair. Just because a pensioner lives in an F band, doesn't mean they have more disposable incomse. Indeed often the opposite as the house is feaer to run. Asset rich but cash poor! Surely a fairer method is possible 

Fair to whom? The tax payer or the asset rich pensioner?

I fear the government's response to the asset rich pensioner would be to sell your band F house, down size and reallocate your wealth more evenly across housing and income generation to live within your means rather than expecting the tax payer to support you to continue to live beyond your means.

You seem to not understand that your so called "asset rich pensioner" has probably paid more in tax and NI and therefore has paid for not only his pension but that of those who didn't work or contribute. Why should he be expected to downsize just so he can contribute even more.

Council tax bands have no bearing on ones ability to pay their bills and there are plenty of people who are living in subsidised accommodation that many of us cant afford. Perhaps some of them should be shifted into a place or area more in keeping with their income.

Without getting political all I can see is a government of resentment and jealously who really want to bring everyone down to the same level. Perhaps there should be a lot more effort in helping people live within their own means without expecting others to keep funding it all.

BarelySentientAI

"Without getting political" let me make a specific political point...?