Equin*** Share transfer forms following probate

rnem170

After my mother died (April 2023) I am still trying to sort our the estate.  The last of which is shares.   Does anyone have a clue about how to fill out their share transfer forms.  They are, without doubt, the most confusing forms I have ever seen.  For example, it says:

Holder 1/Deceased Shareholder
Your full name
Your Signature

REALLY.  Do they want the name of the deceased.  Good luck getting a signature.  They are deceased.  It says "Your" signature.  The forms say that field is required.

There are two executors, myself and my brother.  My company has banned me from buying  shares and will not even allow me to execute this part of the will it seems, so I'm working on the forms with him.  I'm totally stuck, and he is unable to contact Equin*** during business hours, and I'm not allowed to deal with this.  I'm getting to the end of my tether.

Marcon

rnem170 said:

After my mother died (April 2023) I am still trying to sort our the estate.  The last of which is shares.   Does anyone have a clue about how to fill out their share transfer forms.  They are, without doubt, the most confusing forms I have ever seen.  For example, it says:

Holder 1/Deceased Shareholder
Your full name
Your Signature

REALLY.  Do they want the name of the deceased.  Good luck getting a signature.  They are deceased.  It says "Your" signature.  The forms say that field is required.

There are two executors, myself and my brother.  My company has banned me from buying  shares and will not even allow me to execute this part of the will it seems, so I'm working on the forms with him.  I'm totally stuck, and he is unable to contact Equin*** during business hours, and I'm not allowed to deal with this.  I'm getting to the end of my tether.

Not sure why this is creating such an issue. Are you sure you're trying to complete the correct form(s)?

The advice on Equiniti's website is both clear and comprehensive: https://equiniti.com/uk/help-and-support/bereavement/bereavement-process and gives links to all the relevant forms, which you/your brother sign in your capacity as executor, as indicated on the forms.

I think you might be worrying needlessly about your company's 'ban' on buying shares. Talk to them and ask for guidance if you are seriously worried, but don't forget you aren't buying shares: you are disposing of them, either by sale or transfer.

rnem170

Thanks.  I have all the forms, but per the second post in this thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6327269/equiniti-fees
I chose transfer and am so regretting it as they sent forms that are utterly incomprehensible - now I know why they said to phone back for help if needed! 

I wholeheartedly agree.   I have six forms as there are two shareholdings.  There are "transfer forms" The first form has 1,2,3,4 in one field.  The second form has 5,6,7,8 !  Surely the second form should have 1,2,3,4 again.  Then there is a pair for deceased shareholders - Form A, then another pair for transferring with a CSN - which seem completely irrelevant.

They've asked us the number of shares to transfer, but nowhere have they told us what the holding is.  Do we put "ALL" or "Every single one" but one field asks for an absolute number.  If we don't know what the number is (if DRIP was in place)

I have to get permission to dispose of shares - even if I have Grant of Probate it seems.  Seems the company I work for has the ability to stick two fingers up to HMCTS.  That's why I we are trying to transfer them into my brother's name - although as a "connected person" I don't believe that is technically allowed either.  I did ask our compliance team, but it would appear nobody knows - clearly no one has died and left an employee in this situation in the last 100+ years.

It seems I'm going to have to take time off to sort of this out.  Their forms are awful, the website is as good as useless, and they are only contactable 9-5 M-F.  Surely there should be a minimum acceptable standard for a company to be a Registrar.

Marcon

How are the shares held? See https://equiniti.com/uk/help-and-support/bereavement/transfer-sell-donate and scroll down a bit to the descriptions of the various types if you aren't sure.

Not sure why they needed to send you forms - wonder if they are the correct ones? Could you give the reference numbers/name of the forms you've been sent, please - should be a number in light grey type in the top left hand corner of the first page.

Have you already sent them the Grant of Representation: https://equiniti.com/uk/help-and-support/bereavement/register-death

In case it helps, the lines are actually open a bit longer (a bit!) than 9-5: UK callers: 0371 384 2793

Lines are open 8:30 to 17:30 Monday to Friday, excluding UK bank holidays

Keep_pedalling

If your company don’t allow you to buy shares why are you transferring to the beneficiaries rather than selling them? I can’t see how they can interfere with doing that.

rnem170

Marcon said:

How are the shares held? See https://equiniti.com/uk/help-and-support/bereavement/transfer-sell-donate and scroll down a bit to the descriptions of the various types if you aren't sure.

Not sure why they needed to send you forms - wonder if they are the correct ones? Could you give the reference numbers/name of the forms you've been sent, please - should be a number in light grey type in the top left hand corner of the first page.

Have you already sent them the Grant of Representation: https://equiniti.com/uk/help-and-support/bereavement/register-death

In case it helps, the lines are actually open a bit longer (a bit!) than 9-5: UK callers: 0371 384 2793

Lines are open 8:30 to 17:30 Monday to Friday, excluding UK bank holidays

This was one:
https://www.shareview.co.uk/Clients/saga/docs/STF_Combined.pdf
and
https://www.shareview.co.uk/DocumentRepository/Documents/CSN/Forms/Form_A_Generic_UK.pdf
and the other one I can't find online - but it was similar to the last one but said to use if shareholder was deceased (and the one that implied it wanted their signature).

Yes, they were sent Grant of Probate as it was registered with them.  While I was in the middle of getting this all sorted myself, something happened at my company and they told me I could no longer purchase shares or dispose of them without first registering all of my shareholding - including these - and then getting permission to sell them - which would be valid for 1-2 working days only.  

There are two stocks involved.  AstraZeneca (we actually only have Zeneca certificates), and Barclays.  The latter are held electronically.  The AZ ones are not - although with Equin*** being their registrar it out to be easier.

Keep_pedalling said:

If your company don’t allow you to buy shares why are you transferring to the beneficiaries rather than selling them? I can’t see how they can interfere with doing that.

I was told I can't sell them until they are transferred into either my name, or my brothers.  I've been told I can be sacked if I don't comply, which means I myself can't sell them, and neither technically can my brother.  It's ludicrous.  I have asked my management if I am going to have to seek legal advice over the matter.  No one seems to know what do to.  

poppystar

Oh, I sympathise! Those forms are totally incomprehensible. The bereavement team were great in reminding me every month that I needed probate then once I had it they sent the forms and became uncontactable. I was dealing with four different lots of shares as two holdings had been previously transferred into the deceased’s name after the spouses death. Total value was less than £400 at the time and I have to admit I gave up. I’m a reasonably intelligent person (usually) well used to dealing with admin and financial matters but the forms were so bad and the notes that went with them even less help. A friend was also having the same issues but was dealing with much larger holdings and it took him several goes of filling in, having them returned, trying again and getting them rejected again. Dreadful. 

Keep_pedalling

rnem170 said:

Marcon said:

How are the shares held? See https://equiniti.com/uk/help-and-support/bereavement/transfer-sell-donate and scroll down a bit to the descriptions of the various types if you aren't sure.

Not sure why they needed to send you forms - wonder if they are the correct ones? Could you give the reference numbers/name of the forms you've been sent, please - should be a number in light grey type in the top left hand corner of the first page.

Have you already sent them the Grant of Representation: https://equiniti.com/uk/help-and-support/bereavement/register-death

In case it helps, the lines are actually open a bit longer (a bit!) than 9-5: UK callers: 0371 384 2793

Lines are open 8:30 to 17:30 Monday to Friday, excluding UK bank holidays

This was one:
https://www.shareview.co.uk/Clients/saga/docs/STF_Combined.pdf
and
https://www.shareview.co.uk/DocumentRepository/Documents/CSN/Forms/Form_A_Generic_UK.pdf
and the other one I can't find online - but it was similar to the last one but said to use if shareholder was deceased (and the one that implied it wanted their signature).

Yes, they were sent Grant of Probate as it was registered with them.  While I was in the middle of getting this all sorted myself, something happened at my company and they told me I could no longer purchase shares or dispose of them without first registering all of my shareholding - including these - and then getting permission to sell them - which would be valid for 1-2 working days only.  

There are two stocks involved.  AstraZeneca (we actually only have Zeneca certificates), and Barclays.  The latter are held electronically.  The AZ ones are not - although with Equin*** being their registrar it out to be easier.

Keep_pedalling said:

If your company don’t allow you to buy shares why are you transferring to the beneficiaries rather than selling them? I can’t see how they can interfere with doing that.

I was told I can't sell them until they are transferred into either my name, or my brothers.  I've been told I can be sacked if I don't comply, which means I myself can't sell them, and neither technically can my brother.  It's ludicrous.  I have asked my management if I am going to have to seek legal advice over the matter.  No one seems to know what do to.  

Have you spoken to the company’s HR department? What you have been told is nuts. You would be selling the shares as a trustee of the estate not in a personal capacity but transferring them into your own name first would mean you would be selling in a personal capacity which would be against your employer’s terms of employment, and they certainly can’t apply those rules to your brother.

You have obviously informed the company about these shares other wise they would have zero knowledge of them, but from experience company managers are often ignorant of the company’s own rules and employment law, but first thing Monday I would be speaking to HR, and if you are in a union speak to your local rep.

rnem170

Keep_pedalling said:

Have you spoken to the company’s HR department? What you have been told is nuts. You would be selling the shares as a trustee of the estate not in a personal capacity but transferring them into your own name first would mean you would be selling in a personal capacity which would be against your employer’s terms of employment, and they certainly can’t apply those rules to your brother.

You have obviously informed the company about these shares other wise they would have zero knowledge of them, but from experience company managers are often ignorant of the company’s own rules and employment law, but first thing Monday I would be speaking to HR, and if you are in a union speak to your local rep.

Oh yes.  I've told them it's nuts but I'm getting nowhere.  The rules says my brother is a "connected person", and as such, is also not permitted to trade in shares, neither is my wife, my children, or my in-laws - they also have to sign away their rights to financial privacy.  It might be applicable if I did a job which gave me access to inside information - but I don't.  I was told by a very senior manager that I won't change it, so it's not even worth challenging.   It has already been escalated to HR and legal.  They don't seem to care.  I'm not in the union, and if I join, I can't use them to help on this matter for 90 days. 

Keep_pedalling

rnem170 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Have you spoken to the company’s HR department? What you have been told is nuts. You would be selling the shares as a trustee of the estate not in a personal capacity but transferring them into your own name first would mean you would be selling in a personal capacity which would be against your employer’s terms of employment, and they certainly can’t apply those rules to your brother.

You have obviously informed the company about these shares other wise they would have zero knowledge of them, but from experience company managers are often ignorant of the company’s own rules and employment law, but first thing Monday I would be speaking to HR, and if you are in a union speak to your local rep.

Oh yes.  I've told them it's nuts but I'm getting nowhere.  The rules says my brother is a "connected person", and as such, is also not permitted to trade in shares, neither is my wife, my children, or my in-laws - they also have to sign away their rights to financial privacy.  It might be applicable if I did a job which gave me access to inside information - but I don't.  I was told by a very senior manager that I won't change it, so it's not even worth challenging.   It has already been escalated to HR and legal.  They don't seem to care.  I'm not in the union, and if I join, I can't use them to help on this matter for 90 days. 

What utter BS they are talking, you should join the union anyway especially with such a crappy company.

In your shoes I would simply go ahead and sell the shares as executor. You name will never appear on the shares registry and the company have no way of of knowing unless you tell them.