IT Contracting Question

ps124

Hi All, I'm new to IT contracting and my question is this:

Is it possible to have multiple and concurrent outside IR35 contracts? I believe the answer to this is yes and more so because being outside means you are providing a service through your limited company as opposed to being an individual. 

What I don't understand then is the position of recruitment agencies? If you're currently in a contract, will they be reluctant to put you forward for a second contract?

I was recently contacted by an Agency who were offering a part time role for 2 days a week. I could easily manage this with my current contract but but one of the first questions they asked was "how would I work it with my existing contract because they wouldn't be open to paying me for a contract when I'm also working somewhere else?  

What is the best/official way of navigating around this?

tacpot12

It is possible, and highly desirable, to have multiple contracts outside of IR35. It is a primary indicator of self-employment, and therefore that your contracts are outside of IR35. 

The agency should be very pleased if you can get an extra contract through them as it means more commission. You need to find out why they aren't open to paying you for another contract when you're  already working for another client. I can't image what the reason would be other than some misunderstanding on their part.  

Grumpy_chap

Yes, you can certainly have more than one contract and it helps to demonstrate outside IR35.

The Agency might be concerned, if you said you have one contract already for 40 hours per week and they are offering a contract for 16 hours per week that you won't be able to do both.

I assume it is a different Agency for each contract.

You can always simply say that you have the time available and no other contracts that will interfere.  The good thing about outside IR35 is that you don't need permission to take on something else.

Could there be a concern that the two roles create a conflict of interest if they are competing end Clients?

Dakta

I used to contract for a short while and I could have multiple 'clients', though we did lose a colleague because it turned out they were fulfilling one contract whilst supposed to be working the other and it became apparent during incidents when they were online but mysteriously uncontactable. 

anniecave

The other possible concern Dakta said:

I used to contract for a short while and I could have multiple 'clients', though we did lose a colleague because it turned out they were fulfilling one contract whilst supposed to be working the other and it became apparent during incidents when they were online but mysteriously uncontactable. 

This may well be a concern.  Capacity of availability for multiple clients and juggling time between is another.  Or possible conflicts of interest as mentioned above.  We recently had a contractor who was contracted to three different roles at the same time.  Just need to be up front with all parties if doing work for more than one client at once (although if none are full time it's almost a given anyway).  We have contractors doing a mixture of inside and outside IR35 at the same time as well (for different clients).   

ps124

I'm currently working a full time outside IR35 contract which equates to about 35 hours per week. However I have the bandwidth to do more because my current client doesn't have enough work to cover the hours/day per week.

The new role I came across was part time (a few days per week) and through a different agency and not competing end clients - totally different organisations. 

I made it clear to the new agency that I have the bandwidth available (thinking honestly is the best policy) but they made it clear they weren't keen on me doing both which kind of got me thinking about how you're supposed to get a second contract when the agencies aren't keen on it. I'm supposed to respond to them tomorrow but I can't see any other option but to say no which is a shame because the role was a good fit. 

I would have thought the agency's primary role is the find the best person possible for the role - not get into the nitty gritty of how I'd manage my time - leave that to me to deal with the end client.

prowla

If you are working via a Ltd Co, then the contract is with the company, not you.

If the contract names you then I believe that is an indicator of inside IR35.

The issue with multiple contracts is how do you compartmentalise them.

If your main one states 35 hours/week 9-5 Mon-Fri, then you are contractually committed to providing services during those hours.

Now, you say you have bandwidth to do more because there isn't enough work to keep you occupied.

So, suppose you took on that second contract and it was to provide services also in the 9-5 Mon-Fri window.

Great, so now you're making use of the downtime.

But...

What happens if your main contract changes and they need you for full working days - do you bin the second contract?

What happens if both clients need something doing at the same time?

Is the second contract for two specific days per week; if so will you tell your main client you are no longer available for those two days?

Lots of ifs and buts.

Grumpy_chap

ps124 said:

I'm currently working a full time outside IR35 contract which equates to about 35 hours per week. However I have the bandwidth to do more because my current client doesn't have enough work to cover the hours/day per week.

The new role I came across was part time (a few days per week) and through a different agency and not competing end clients - totally different organisations. 

So, if the current role is not consuming 35 hours per week, are you only invoicing the hours that you actually work?
Or are you invoicing 35 hours?
That could look very bad to an Agency as you'd be trying to invoice them also for, effectively, the same hours that are already paid by the other Client.

The Agency might think you are willing to do the same to their Client - invoice 2 days (16 hours) but only work 8 hours (or whatever).

If the current role is only 24 hours per week, then that would leave you 16 hours to work for another Client.
So long as the hours can be managed around each other.

Have you explained to the new Agency that the current role is not 35 hours?

ps124

Thanks for the replies. 

For my current contract...this is my main contract - anything else I pick up would be on a part time basis or as required

I am invoicing the full amount - The client is aware and they've not told me to do anything otherwise. I'm always available provide services during my contracted hours but I would assume its up to them to use me.

I am not in operations therefore I wouldn't expect a critical incident to occur where I am absolutely needed. At most, there may be a meeting clash, but I would need to manage that in the same way as I would if I was doing a single job or contract.

They basically have limited supervision, direction and control over what, how, and when I complete the day to day work.

I'm not sure the Agency would care much on how much I'm invoicing as its more commission for them, and if the client is happy with the services provided.

I'm not going to progress with that other role I posted about earlier as the agency representing it have made it clear they are expecting me to not be working my current contract while working for their client.

However, I'm still keen on picking up another part time contract but reading some of the views/expereinces in this thread, it just seems like agencies are not accepting of contractors working multiple contracts - maybe for fear of getting a bad name if the contractor does not perform well (?)

I'm still none the wiser as to what I'm going to say if I get an oppurtunuity for another contract - I've tried telling the truth Ie I have the bandwidth, I will delivery your work, there will be no impact etc. but that didn't seem to work.

prowla

Typically if a client needs 16 hours work from you during office hours, then that's what they'll expect from you.

OTOH if they need 16 hours work over a business week and are flexible about when it's delivered, then you can choose your working hours.

The issue would arise if both clients want you at the same time, eg. daily stand-ups, weekly planning meetings, etc.; you're then stymied.

Though the current client is OK with you being idle for periods of time, their expectation could be that you are always available at the drop of a hat and things might get difficult of you start pushing back when they ask for your time.

Some other thoughts...

I've had a couple of contracts where my client was waiting for a project go-ahead from their client and in the menwhile we were doing no work at one and spent time at the other preparing for what-if scenarios; in the first case I left because there was no work (and they still said they needed me!) and in the second case my client realised they were chasing rainbows and pulled the plug. They were both on-site, so there was no opportuninity to do sideline work.

Perhaps another way of looking at work is deliverables: are you needed to deliver 16 hours of work per week for a month or is the requirement to deliver a package of work which is estimated at 64 hours of effort in total, with weekly checkpoints? If it's the latter, then the client has no say (or interest in) how you go about it, provided you deliver. Of course, payment may be on delivery. It's a bit like asking an accountant to do your books: you care that they've done your VAT submission & PAYE (or whatever) on-time, not how they've gone about doing it.

Elliott.T123

ps124 said:

Hi All, I'm new to IT contracting and my question is this:

Is it possible to have multiple and concurrent outside IR35 contracts? I believe the answer to this is yes and more so because being outside means you are providing a service through your limited company as opposed to being an individual. 

What I don't understand then is the position of recruitment agencies? If you're currently in a contract, will they be reluctant to put you forward for a second contract?

I was recently contacted by an Agency who were offering a part time role for 2 days a week. I could easily manage this with my current contract but but one of the first questions they asked was "how would I work it with my existing contract because they wouldn't be open to paying me for a contract when I'm also working somewhere else?  

What is the best/official way of navigating around this?

As a recruiter with 15 ish years that agency were idiots or they weren't being fully truthful about the contract (maybe it wasn't 2 days per week etc).

If I am seeking someone for a part time role I couldn't care less what they do the other days (unless I can find them other work). The issue comes when the contracts don't specify particular needs. For example Contract A wants 20 hours Contract B wants 20 hours but neither are specified. There will be a worry that you may not be free for meetings etc if they come up last minute.

As someone else said, if anything it makes everyone's life easier as it makes outside IR35 easier to prove.