Carer's Allowance overhaul needed to prevent 1,000s being chased for overpayments, says charity

HillStreetBlues

RAS said:

One case featured in an article was someone who was told that she could not exceed an annual £7.5k earning limit. Not that any single instance had to be reported. She exceeded the limit six times over 5 years and has been told to repay every penny of carer's allowance received in the six years.

Have you the article? as that doesn't sound correct to me.

Savvy_Sue

kaMelo said:

Iim pretty sure the RTI feed integration is UC specific so impossible for DWP to pick up in real time. Trying to integrate RTI into carers allowance may be desirable but with such an old system it would probably only be possible by rewriting it, not a small task. This is also why tapering is a problem, without the real time earnings information it can't happen.  Maybe something like an annual review along the lines of tax credits is an option to reduce the size of overpayments.

Well, that's not the way it's been presented. What's been stated is that DWP receives the information from RTI, but fails to act on it in a timely fashion, leading to huge overpayments.

MouldyOldDough

born_again said:

MouldyOldDough said:

born_again said:

Or limit the number of hours that can be worked. Given the criteria for carers allowance. I agree the running up a large back payment is not something that should happen. But guess that people fail to act on the warning given when given carers allowance about the amount you can earn, and blindly think that it will be automatically adjusted for them over earning.
As would be said a lack of personal responsibility in some cases.

But given the announcement on winter fuel allowance today. Mmm

My wife/carer - is too knackered after spending 35 hours looking after me to even consider a second job anyway !!

Would agree given is roughly a full time job @35 hours. Most carers will spend far more than 35 hours a week in the role.

And the rate of pay is just £2.34 per hour maximum !

chrisw

born_again said:

MouldyOldDough said:

born_again said:

Or limit the number of hours that can be worked. Given the criteria for carers allowance. I agree the running up a large back payment is not something that should happen. But guess that people fail to act on the warning given when given carers allowance about the amount you can earn, and blindly think that it will be automatically adjusted for them over earning.
As would be said a lack of personal responsibility in some cases.

But given the announcement on winter fuel allowance today. Mmm

My wife/carer - is too knackered after spending 35 hours looking after me to even consider a second job anyway !!

Would agree given is roughly a full time job @35 hours. Most carers will spend far more than 35 hours a week in the role.

Exactly this. My concern is that a review of the carers allowance could in fact make things worse, particularly in light of the recent withdrawal of the winter allowance.

kaMelo

Savvy_Sue said:

kaMelo said:

Iim pretty sure the RTI feed integration is UC specific so impossible for DWP to pick up in real time. Trying to integrate RTI into carers allowance may be desirable but with such an old system it would probably only be possible by rewriting it, not a small task. This is also why tapering is a problem, without the real time earnings information it can't happen.  Maybe something like an annual review along the lines of tax credits is an option to reduce the size of overpayments.

Well, that's not the way it's been presented. What's been stated is that DWP receives the information from RTI, but fails to act on it in a timely fashion, leading to huge overpayments.

It's not that the DWP don't have the RTI information, they do, it's how it's dealt with that differs.

UC is an automated benefit, RTI feed is linked into the system and along with all the other information about the claim and calculates any entitlement at the end of an assessment period, all without any human intervention.

As far as I know there is no such integration with carers allowance. To use the RTI feed in a similar way would currently require manual intervention on every claim every week, that's simply not realistic.

Whether there should be more onus on DWP to process things in a more timely manner is a political debate but the current rules require claimants of all benefits to understand what they're claiming and notify of any changes that may affect their eligibility. Of all the current benefits, carers allowance is possibly the easiest to understand the rules.

Savvy_Sue

kaMelo said:

Savvy_Sue said:

kaMelo said:

Iim pretty sure the RTI feed integration is UC specific so impossible for DWP to pick up in real time. Trying to integrate RTI into carers allowance may be desirable but with such an old system it would probably only be possible by rewriting it, not a small task. This is also why tapering is a problem, without the real time earnings information it can't happen.  Maybe something like an annual review along the lines of tax credits is an option to reduce the size of overpayments.

Well, that's not the way it's been presented. What's been stated is that DWP receives the information from RTI, but fails to act on it in a timely fashion, leading to huge overpayments.

It's not that the DWP don't have the RTI information, they do, it's how it's dealt with that differs.

UC is an automated benefit, RTI feed is linked into the system and along with all the other information about the claim and calculates any entitlement at the end of an assessment period, all without any human intervention.

As far as I know there is no such integration with carers allowance. To use the RTI feed in a similar way would currently require manual intervention on every claim every week, that's simply not realistic.

Whether there should be more onus on DWP to process things in a more timely manner is a political debate but the current rules require claimants of all benefits to understand what they're claiming and notify of any changes that may affect their eligibility. Of all the current benefits, carers allowance is possibly the easiest to understand the rules.

And they also need to be given the correct information, consistently, which is another issue with what's happened. If you're told by a civil servant that DWP will pick up your information from RTI, you'd like to think you can believe it, wouldn't you? 

kaMelo

Savvy_Sue said:

kaMelo said:

Savvy_Sue said:

kaMelo said:

Iim pretty sure the RTI feed integration is UC specific so impossible for DWP to pick up in real time. Trying to integrate RTI into carers allowance may be desirable but with such an old system it would probably only be possible by rewriting it, not a small task. This is also why tapering is a problem, without the real time earnings information it can't happen.  Maybe something like an annual review along the lines of tax credits is an option to reduce the size of overpayments.

Well, that's not the way it's been presented. What's been stated is that DWP receives the information from RTI, but fails to act on it in a timely fashion, leading to huge overpayments.

It's not that the DWP don't have the RTI information, they do, it's how it's dealt with that differs.

UC is an automated benefit, RTI feed is linked into the system and along with all the other information about the claim and calculates any entitlement at the end of an assessment period, all without any human intervention.

As far as I know there is no such integration with carers allowance. To use the RTI feed in a similar way would currently require manual intervention on every claim every week, that's simply not realistic.

Whether there should be more onus on DWP to process things in a more timely manner is a political debate but the current rules require claimants of all benefits to understand what they're claiming and notify of any changes that may affect their eligibility. Of all the current benefits, carers allowance is possibly the easiest to understand the rules.

And they also need to be given the correct information, consistently, which is another issue with what's happened. If you're told by a civil servant that DWP will pick up your information from RTI, you'd like to think you can believe it, wouldn't you? 

I agree, if that has happened to anyone then it's really poor. 

I'd much rather someone said 'I don't know' and direct them to the Government website for information instead of guessing or making something up.

sarah1972

My husband has terminal cancer and we said no to carers because I am more than happy to do it.£81.90 for way more than 35 hours a week 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Even if it was only 35 hours, it’s a pittance  

M25

I hope this 'story' never gets more traction. I keep seeing it pop up it's hardly the Post Office scandal is it? That money belongs to everyone here not the people who spent it.

Yes, carers don't getting enough financial support or respect but that's got nothing to do with claiming something they are not eligible for. I have read several cases/examples and they're all essentially theft. Yes, make the system simplier and faster acting if need be but people should know what they're doing.

People claimed money they shouldn't have been getting. It's that simple.

Personal responsibility.

Gandalf644

M25 said:

I hope this 'story' never gets more traction. I keep seeing it pop up it's hardly the Post Office scandal is it? That money belongs to everyone here not the people who spent it.

Yes, carers don't getting enough financial support or respect but that's got nothing to do with claiming something they are not eligible for. I have read several cases/examples and they're all essentially theft. Yes, make the system simplier and faster acting if need be but people should know what they're doing.

People claimed money they shouldn't have been getting. It's that simple.

Personal responsibility.

The DWP also have a responsibility, in my/my carer's case, to make sure my carer is actually paid carers allowance!

Every so often, they simply stop paying her.

The reason apparently, is because I do not claim any benefits from the DWP, so their Carers Allowance system kicks my carer off their books. She has to then reapply to get it set up again.

They really do need to have a fully joined up system. This would include real-time PAYE information of the carers, so they are instantly aware of carers are over earning.

That, of course is a matter for the Government investing in IT systems capable of doing the job correctly.