Exchanging contracts with tenant in situ: why vendors unwilling to provide tenancy agreement?

BikingBud

You consider there is a risk that you might be gazumped, based upon what evidence? Is it an exclusive flat and therefore very attractive flat in an area where very few properties come onto the market?

What makes it worth the risk?

Why leave the deposit with the vendor's lawyers why not yours?

Has the vendor indicated that they will remarket, were they reticent to take it off the market when you offered?

What could change between now and October?

I would be very wary of any agreement that appears to depend upon the, unknown to you, intent and integrity of the tennant.

propertyrental

You and your solicitor are focussing on the wrong issue.  The tenancy agreement really tells you nothing (useful). You need to focus on ensuring

* the tenant has left AND

* the tenancy has ended (two different things!)

before you exchange contracts.

Yes, the greater risk is on the seller if you exchange and the tenants don't leave as hoped leaving the seller unable to provide vacant possession, but there is endless hassle and maybe cost to you too.

You say the tenancy is due to end in October, but based on what?

1) if that's when the fixed term ends, that does not end the tenancy

2) LL cannot legally end the tenancy - only a court can do that at his request, which takes time

3) tenant can serve notice, but then ignore it and stay ('hold over'). Yes there is a process for LL to then charge T double rent but

a) that does not help you

b) few LL even know of this and

c) if T neither paid the double rent nor vacated, eviction would take time (as would claiming the double rent.

Do not Exchange until (see above!).

FlorayG

I'm on the vendor's side here. They have offered you vacant possession in October and if you don't achieve that then you get your money back. If the tenant refuses to leave it's the vendor's problem not yours. 
Have you spoken with the tenant? I assume you've been to look at the property so probably met them. It's not unreasonable to ask them what plans they have for October. The tenancy agreement is between the landlord and occupier and nothing to do with you

theartfullodger

Three points please
..

Which country? (Eg Wales, NI...)?  Law differs, some cases a lot.

You do realise that a tenancy expiring (end of fixed term) does not end tenancy nor compel tenants to leave (England).

Just because tenancy agreement (in writing) says it is one thing doesn't mean it is.  The reality of the relationship defines what sort it is (see Street v Mountford, English case) so even seeing the paperwork doesn't totally help.

I agree, don't exchange until tenants depart (or as I did buy student tenancy with tenants remaining  - profitable since 2006).

Done ANY training in landlord/tenant law?

lb00

Reply from the OP

Thanks all for your replies.

I will try to visit the tenants today and see what they have to say. As some of you correctly pointed out, it's ultimately up to them whether they choose to leave. Having a direct conversation with them could be much more insightful than relying on documents that don’t provide any proof of their intentions.

I should have mentioned an important detail: The seller, a property investment company, bought this flat in February with the tenant already in place. Perhaps one reason they might be reluctant to provide the tenancy agreement is that they may not have all the necessary paperwork in order?

Could this be a problem for my situation? If the tenant ends up being difficult about leaving, I would prefer to walk away and get my deposit back as provided in the contract after the longstop date.

BarelySentientAI

lb00 said:

 Perhaps one reason they might be reluctant to provide the tenancy agreement is that they may not have all the necessary paperwork in order?

Could this be a problem for my situation? 

Yes, because it could make S21 invalid if the tenants decide not to leave.

Olinda99

just in case you haven't got the message from everyone else don't even consider exchanging contracts until the tenant has left and the property is vacant

GDB2222

Olinda99 said:

just in case you haven't got the message from everyone else don't even consider exchanging contracts until the tenant has left and the property is vacant

I totally disagree. The OP is exchanging a conditional contract, so he is not at risk if the tenant decides to stay.  It's just the inconvenience.

GDB2222

lb00 said:

Reply from the OP

Thanks all for your replies.

I will try to visit the tenants today and see what they have to say. As some of you correctly pointed out, it's ultimately up to them whether they choose to leave. Having a direct conversation with them could be much more insightful than relying on documents that don’t provide any proof of their intentions.

I should have mentioned an important detail: The seller, a property investment company, bought this flat in February with the tenant already in place. Perhaps one reason they might be reluctant to provide the tenancy agreement is that they may not have all the necessary paperwork in order?

Could this be a problem for my situation? If the tenant ends up being difficult about leaving, I would prefer to walk away and get my deposit back as provided in the contract after the longstop date.

I think you understand what's going on, and it's hardly financial suicide to go ahead with the proposed contract. 

The only question I have is: when is the long stop date? Pretty soon after the date the tenants are supposed to move out?

In my experience as a landlord, most tenants are perfectly reasonable people. So, if they have agreed to a date, 90% will move out on time. 

lb00

GDB2222 said:

lb00 said:

Reply from the OP

Thanks all for your replies.

I will try to visit the tenants today and see what they have to say. As some of you correctly pointed out, it's ultimately up to them whether they choose to leave. Having a direct conversation with them could be much more insightful than relying on documents that don’t provide any proof of their intentions.

I should have mentioned an important detail: The seller, a property investment company, bought this flat in February with the tenant already in place. Perhaps one reason they might be reluctant to provide the tenancy agreement is that they may not have all the necessary paperwork in order?

Could this be a problem for my situation? If the tenant ends up being difficult about leaving, I would prefer to walk away and get my deposit back as provided in the contract after the longstop date.

I think you understand what's going on, and it's hardly financial suicide to go ahead with the proposed contract. 

The only question I have is: when is the long stop date? Pretty soon after the date the tenants are supposed to move out?

In my experience as a landlord, most tenants are perfectly reasonable people. So, if they have agreed to a date, 90% will move out on time. 

Long stop date is 22 calendar days after the date the tenant have said they will leave.