Is Your SIPP Pension Making Any Money?

mad1_2

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

I'm wondering if anybody viewing this thread has a managed SIPP (not self invested) via an IFA and how that is performing? It would also be good to hear about charges for this type of pension.

Again, that comes down to risk more than anything else.  The table below gives an indication of calender year performance with 0% equities at the top and each line adding 10% equities until you get to 100% equities at the bottom.  Performance always needs to be in context with the same investment risk otherwise it is not like for like.



Adviser firms frequently tier their charges based on the amount invested.   i.e. 1% if below £xx, 0.75% if above £xx, 0.50% if above £yy etc.      So, the amount would need to be known for context (i.e. being charged 1% on £50k is reasonable but being charged 1% on £500k is expensive)

Thank you - that is very useful and interesting.

I asked my IFA for a breakdown on their fees. My pot is currently £181,324.04. I've replaced their company name with '???'

Platform fee – Quilter 0.27% pa payable monthly

Adviser fee – ??? 1%

??? Income ATR3 portfolio – 0.62%. 

Total: 1.89%

dunstonh

mad1_2 said:

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

I'm wondering if anybody viewing this thread has a managed SIPP (not self invested) via an IFA and how that is performing? It would also be good to hear about charges for this type of pension.

Again, that comes down to risk more than anything else.  The table below gives an indication of calender year performance with 0% equities at the top and each line adding 10% equities until you get to 100% equities at the bottom.  Performance always needs to be in context with the same investment risk otherwise it is not like for like.



Adviser firms frequently tier their charges based on the amount invested.   i.e. 1% if below £xx, 0.75% if above £xx, 0.50% if above £yy etc.      So, the amount would need to be known for context (i.e. being charged 1% on £50k is reasonable but being charged 1% on £500k is expensive)

Thank you - that is very useful and interesting.

I asked my IFA for a breakdown on their fees. My pot is currently £181,324.04. I've replaced their company name with '???'

Platform fee – Quilter 0.27% pa payable monthly

Adviser fee – ??? 1%

??? Income ATR3 portfolio – 0.62%. 

Total: 1.89%

£181k is where you tend to see 0.75-1.00% more typical, but some firms with better tech implementation where you are happy to do Zoom/teams meetings so they avoid travel times would head towards 0.50%.       You are probably not in the 0.5% range for home visits.  (locations can make a difference too.  City firms have higher overheads than rural firms - so costs often follow)

Quilter is middling in its pricing  (HL, the DIY platform mentioned higher on this thread is 0.45% by comparison).  But you could see 0.15% with other IFA platforms (as you could with DIY platforms, too).

0.62% on the portfolio suggests fully managed funds or mostly managed funds.      Typically passive funds would be in the 0.1x%-0.2% ballpark.   Active portfolios up to around 0.7x% and hybrid (mix of the two) would be somewhere in between.   Generally the lower down the risk scale, the greater the cost due to the types of assets used.

Is the portfolio a Quilter portfolio?   (quilter agents recommend quilter platform with quilter portfolios.  IFAs do have access to Quilter but would not typically use quilter portfolios).

Bostonerimus1

mad1_2 said:

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

I'm wondering if anybody viewing this thread has a managed SIPP (not self invested) via an IFA and how that is performing? It would also be good to hear about charges for this type of pension.

Again, that comes down to risk more than anything else.  The table below gives an indication of calender year performance with 0% equities at the top and each line adding 10% equities until you get to 100% equities at the bottom.  Performance always needs to be in context with the same investment risk otherwise it is not like for like.



Adviser firms frequently tier their charges based on the amount invested.   i.e. 1% if below £xx, 0.75% if above £xx, 0.50% if above £yy etc.      So, the amount would need to be known for context (i.e. being charged 1% on £50k is reasonable but being charged 1% on £500k is expensive)

Thank you - that is very useful and interesting.

I asked my IFA for a breakdown on their fees. My pot is currently £181,324.04. I've replaced their company name with '???'

Platform fee – Quilter 0.27% pa payable monthly

Adviser fee – ??? 1%

??? Income ATR3 portfolio – 0.62%. 

Total: 1.89%

You have understood the fees you are paying, but you have yet to tell us how your money is invested. Which funds are in your portfolio? When you tell us the content of your portfolio we will be able to understand a lot more about the reasons for it's performance since Feb 2023. The inclusion of "ATR" in the name of your portfolio fills me with a certain amount of dread. You should also be having this conversation with your advisor.

mad1_2

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

I'm wondering if anybody viewing this thread has a managed SIPP (not self invested) via an IFA and how that is performing? It would also be good to hear about charges for this type of pension.

Again, that comes down to risk more than anything else.  The table below gives an indication of calender year performance with 0% equities at the top and each line adding 10% equities until you get to 100% equities at the bottom.  Performance always needs to be in context with the same investment risk otherwise it is not like for like.



Adviser firms frequently tier their charges based on the amount invested.   i.e. 1% if below £xx, 0.75% if above £xx, 0.50% if above £yy etc.      So, the amount would need to be known for context (i.e. being charged 1% on £50k is reasonable but being charged 1% on £500k is expensive)

Thank you - that is very useful and interesting.

I asked my IFA for a breakdown on their fees. My pot is currently £181,324.04. I've replaced their company name with '???'

Platform fee – Quilter 0.27% pa payable monthly

Adviser fee – ??? 1%

??? Income ATR3 portfolio – 0.62%. 

Total: 1.89%

£181k is where you tend to see 0.75-1.00% more typical, but some firms with better tech implementation where you are happy to do Zoom/teams meetings so they avoid travel times would head towards 0.50%.       You are probably not in the 0.5% range for home visits.  (locations can make a difference too.  City firms have higher overheads than rural firms - so costs often follow)

Quilter is middling in its pricing  (HL, the DIY platform mentioned higher on this thread is 0.45% by comparison).  But you could see 0.15% with other IFA platforms (as you could with DIY platforms, too).

0.62% on the portfolio suggests fully managed funds or mostly managed funds.      Typically passive funds would be in the 0.1x%-0.2% ballpark.   Active portfolios up to around 0.7x% and hybrid (mix of the two) would be somewhere in between.   Generally the lower down the risk scale, the greater the cost due to the types of assets used.

Is the portfolio a Quilter portfolio?   (quilter agents recommend quilter platform with quilter portfolios.  IFAs do have access to Quilter but would not typically use quilter portfolios).

I've never met the IFA - it's always been Zoom or telephone meetings.
It's definitely 'fully managed'. The investments are made by the IFA and I access the performance via Quilter.

mad1_2

Bostonerimus1 said:

mad1_2 said:

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

I'm wondering if anybody viewing this thread has a managed SIPP (not self invested) via an IFA and how that is performing? It would also be good to hear about charges for this type of pension.

Again, that comes down to risk more than anything else.  The table below gives an indication of calender year performance with 0% equities at the top and each line adding 10% equities until you get to 100% equities at the bottom.  Performance always needs to be in context with the same investment risk otherwise it is not like for like.



Adviser firms frequently tier their charges based on the amount invested.   i.e. 1% if below £xx, 0.75% if above £xx, 0.50% if above £yy etc.      So, the amount would need to be known for context (i.e. being charged 1% on £50k is reasonable but being charged 1% on £500k is expensive)

Thank you - that is very useful and interesting.

I asked my IFA for a breakdown on their fees. My pot is currently £181,324.04. I've replaced their company name with '???'

Platform fee – Quilter 0.27% pa payable monthly

Adviser fee – ??? 1%

??? Income ATR3 portfolio – 0.62%. 

Total: 1.89%

You have understood the fees you are paying, but you have yet to tell us how your money is invested. Which funds are in your portfolio? When you tell us the content of your portfolio we will be able to understand a lot more about the reasons for it's performance since Feb 2023. The inclusion of "ATR" in the name of your portfolio fills me with a certain amount of dread. You should also be having this conversation with your advisor.

Bostonerimus1 said:

mad1_2 said:

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

I'm wondering if anybody viewing this thread has a managed SIPP (not self invested) via an IFA and how that is performing? It would also be good to hear about charges for this type of pension.

Again, that comes down to risk more than anything else.  The table below gives an indication of calender year performance with 0% equities at the top and each line adding 10% equities until you get to 100% equities at the bottom.  Performance always needs to be in context with the same investment risk otherwise it is not like for like.



Adviser firms frequently tier their charges based on the amount invested.   i.e. 1% if below £xx, 0.75% if above £xx, 0.50% if above £yy etc.      So, the amount would need to be known for context (i.e. being charged 1% on £50k is reasonable but being charged 1% on £500k is expensive)

Thank you - that is very useful and interesting.

I asked my IFA for a breakdown on their fees. My pot is currently £181,324.04. I've replaced their company name with '???'

Platform fee – Quilter 0.27% pa payable monthly

Adviser fee – ??? 1%

??? Income ATR3 portfolio – 0.62%. 

Total: 1.89%

You have understood the fees you are paying, but you have yet to tell us how your money is invested. Which funds are in your portfolio? When you tell us the content of your portfolio we will be able to understand a lot more about the reasons for it's performance since Feb 2023. The inclusion of "ATR" in the name of your portfolio fills me with a certain amount of dread. You should also be having this conversation with your advisor.

Here's some info - apologies it's a bit 'unformatted':

Vanguard (IE) US Government Bond Index GBP (Hedged) Inc -U 3.04% £5,519.45 £36.79 

InvestmentGuinness Global Equity Income Inc -U2 8.06% £14,641.03 £20.61 

InvestmentBaillie Gifford Global Income Growth Inc -U 6.90% £12,522.69 -£270.19 

InvestmentiShares Index Linked Gilt Index (UK) Acc -U 2.01% £3,652.71 -£2.40 

InvestmentFidelity Global Dividend (Monthly Income) Inc -U 8.18% £14,852.91 £232.48 

InvestmentL&G All Stocks Gilt Index Trust (Share Class I) Inc 3.02% £5,480.36 -£2.30 

InvestmentL&G UK Index Trust Inc -U 4.04% £7,342.79 £32.58 

InvestmentJupiter Global Macro Bond Inc -U2 (RESTRICTED) 4.06% £7,376.16 £65.95 

InvestmentRoyal London Corporate Bond Inc -U 4.01% £7,282.73 -£27.48 

InvestmentRoyal London Short Duration Credit Inc -U 6.06% £11,003.11 £37.80 

InvestmentSchroder Strategic Credit Inc -U2 4.04% £7,337.71 £27.50 

Investmentabrdn Emerging Markets Income Equity (Share Class Platform 1) Inc -U 4.89% £8,873.24 -£264.52 

InvestmentGoldman Sachs (Lux) Emerging Markets CORE Equity Portfolio (Share Class R) Inc -U 3.84% £6,968.08 -£342.13 

InvestmentL&G Global Equity Index Inc -U 7.31% £13,272.25 -£434.39 

InvestmentAtlantic House Defined Returns (Share Class I 4%) Inc -U 3.02% £5,484.46 £1.80 

InvestmentRoyal London UK Dividend Growth Inc -U 5.15% £9,348.45 £210.69 

InvestmentVanguard Sterling Short-Term Money Market Inc -U 1.01% £1,832.11 £4.56 

InvestmentMGTS St Johns Property Authorised Trust Inc -U 7.55% £13,703.73 -£2.91 

InvestmentArtemis Corporate Bond Inc -U 4.03% £7,318.23 £8.02 

InvestmentAllspring (Lux) Worldwide Fund - Global Equity Enhanced Income Inc -U 7.77% £14,110.15 -£510.27 

InvestmentAtlantic House Uncorrelated Strategies (Hedged) Inc -U 2.00% £3,631.57 -£23.52 

GBP Cash

0.14%

£262.36

-

I have had a number of conversations with my adviser before I posted here. Their response has to been to shrug their shoulders and say 'we hear you' and to cite the macro economic events I've mentioned earlier as factors in my pension making no growth during this time period... Hence my decision to post here and get others' perspectives.

Sapientia

I am doing better without a FA - but it has another kind of cost. That of time! I would rather pay for an FA if I didn't have time to manage my own for some reason than not manage the portfolio at all. 

nicknameless

mad1_2 said:

Bostonerimus1 said:

mad1_2 said:

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

I'm wondering if anybody viewing this thread has a managed SIPP (not self invested) via an IFA and how that is performing? It would also be good to hear about charges for this type of pension.

Again, that comes down to risk more than anything else.  The table below gives an indication of calender year performance with 0% equities at the top and each line adding 10% equities until you get to 100% equities at the bottom.  Performance always needs to be in context with the same investment risk otherwise it is not like for like.



Adviser firms frequently tier their charges based on the amount invested.   i.e. 1% if below £xx, 0.75% if above £xx, 0.50% if above £yy etc.      So, the amount would need to be known for context (i.e. being charged 1% on £50k is reasonable but being charged 1% on £500k is expensive)

Thank you - that is very useful and interesting.

I asked my IFA for a breakdown on their fees. My pot is currently £181,324.04. I've replaced their company name with '???'

Platform fee – Quilter 0.27% pa payable monthly

Adviser fee – ??? 1%

??? Income ATR3 portfolio – 0.62%. 

Total: 1.89%

You have understood the fees you are paying, but you have yet to tell us how your money is invested. Which funds are in your portfolio? When you tell us the content of your portfolio we will be able to understand a lot more about the reasons for it's performance since Feb 2023. The inclusion of "ATR" in the name of your portfolio fills me with a certain amount of dread. You should also be having this conversation with your advisor.

Bostonerimus1 said:

mad1_2 said:

dunstonh said:

mad1_2 said:

I'm wondering if anybody viewing this thread has a managed SIPP (not self invested) via an IFA and how that is performing? It would also be good to hear about charges for this type of pension.

Again, that comes down to risk more than anything else.  The table below gives an indication of calender year performance with 0% equities at the top and each line adding 10% equities until you get to 100% equities at the bottom.  Performance always needs to be in context with the same investment risk otherwise it is not like for like.



Adviser firms frequently tier their charges based on the amount invested.   i.e. 1% if below £xx, 0.75% if above £xx, 0.50% if above £yy etc.      So, the amount would need to be known for context (i.e. being charged 1% on £50k is reasonable but being charged 1% on £500k is expensive)

Thank you - that is very useful and interesting.

I asked my IFA for a breakdown on their fees. My pot is currently £181,324.04. I've replaced their company name with '???'

Platform fee – Quilter 0.27% pa payable monthly

Adviser fee – ??? 1%

??? Income ATR3 portfolio – 0.62%. 

Total: 1.89%

You have understood the fees you are paying, but you have yet to tell us how your money is invested. Which funds are in your portfolio? When you tell us the content of your portfolio we will be able to understand a lot more about the reasons for it's performance since Feb 2023. The inclusion of "ATR" in the name of your portfolio fills me with a certain amount of dread. You should also be having this conversation with your advisor.

Here's some info - apologies it's a bit 'unformatted':

Vanguard (IE) US Government Bond Index GBP (Hedged) Inc -U 3.04% £5,519.45 £36.79 

InvestmentGuinness Global Equity Income Inc -U2 8.06% £14,641.03 £20.61 

InvestmentBaillie Gifford Global Income Growth Inc -U 6.90% £12,522.69 -£270.19 

InvestmentiShares Index Linked Gilt Index (UK) Acc -U 2.01% £3,652.71 -£2.40 

InvestmentFidelity Global Dividend (Monthly Income) Inc -U 8.18% £14,852.91 £232.48 

InvestmentL&G All Stocks Gilt Index Trust (Share Class I) Inc 3.02% £5,480.36 -£2.30 

InvestmentL&G UK Index Trust Inc -U 4.04% £7,342.79 £32.58 

InvestmentJupiter Global Macro Bond Inc -U2 (RESTRICTED) 4.06% £7,376.16 £65.95 

InvestmentRoyal London Corporate Bond Inc -U 4.01% £7,282.73 -£27.48 

InvestmentRoyal London Short Duration Credit Inc -U 6.06% £11,003.11 £37.80 

InvestmentSchroder Strategic Credit Inc -U2 4.04% £7,337.71 £27.50 

Investmentabrdn Emerging Markets Income Equity (Share Class Platform 1) Inc -U 4.89% £8,873.24 -£264.52 

InvestmentGoldman Sachs (Lux) Emerging Markets CORE Equity Portfolio (Share Class R) Inc -U 3.84% £6,968.08 -£342.13 

InvestmentL&G Global Equity Index Inc -U 7.31% £13,272.25 -£434.39 

InvestmentAtlantic House Defined Returns (Share Class I 4%) Inc -U 3.02% £5,484.46 £1.80 

InvestmentRoyal London UK Dividend Growth Inc -U 5.15% £9,348.45 £210.69 

InvestmentVanguard Sterling Short-Term Money Market Inc -U 1.01% £1,832.11 £4.56 

InvestmentMGTS St Johns Property Authorised Trust Inc -U 7.55% £13,703.73 -£2.91 

InvestmentArtemis Corporate Bond Inc -U 4.03% £7,318.23 £8.02 

InvestmentAllspring (Lux) Worldwide Fund - Global Equity Enhanced Income Inc -U 7.77% £14,110.15 -£510.27 

InvestmentAtlantic House Uncorrelated Strategies (Hedged) Inc -U 2.00% £3,631.57 -£23.52 

GBP Cash

0.14%

£262.36

-

I have had a number of conversations with my adviser before I posted here. Their response has to been to shrug their shoulders and say 'we hear you' and to cite the macro economic events I've mentioned earlier as factors in my pension making no growth during this time period... Hence my decision to post here and get others' perspectives.

Not much wonder you think investing is complex looking at that portfolio.  The illusion of complexity is perhaps intentional?

I am commenting as a DIY investor with little investing knowledge but relatively more confidence that our approach is reasonable and unlikely to be bettered by an IFA / managed approach in terms of returns.  We hold a single accumulation global exchange traded fund and a single bond fund.  I quickly counted 20 in your list.  As I say, no wonder you perceive it as complex.  Perhaps I don't know what I don't know?

Roger175

mad1_2 said:

Here's some info - apologies it's a bit 'unformatted':

Vanguard (IE) US Government Bond Index GBP (Hedged) Inc -U 3.04% £5,519.45 £36.79 

InvestmentGuinness Global Equity Income Inc -U2 8.06% £14,641.03 £20.61 

InvestmentBaillie Gifford Global Income Growth Inc -U 6.90% £12,522.69 -£270.19 

InvestmentiShares Index Linked Gilt Index (UK) Acc -U 2.01% £3,652.71 -£2.40 

InvestmentFidelity Global Dividend (Monthly Income) Inc -U 8.18% £14,852.91 £232.48 

InvestmentL&G All Stocks Gilt Index Trust (Share Class I) Inc 3.02% £5,480.36 -£2.30 

InvestmentL&G UK Index Trust Inc -U 4.04% £7,342.79 £32.58 

InvestmentJupiter Global Macro Bond Inc -U2 (RESTRICTED) 4.06% £7,376.16 £65.95 

InvestmentRoyal London Corporate Bond Inc -U 4.01% £7,282.73 -£27.48 

InvestmentRoyal London Short Duration Credit Inc -U 6.06% £11,003.11 £37.80 

InvestmentSchroder Strategic Credit Inc -U2 4.04% £7,337.71 £27.50 

Investmentabrdn Emerging Markets Income Equity (Share Class Platform 1) Inc -U 4.89% £8,873.24 -£264.52 

InvestmentGoldman Sachs (Lux) Emerging Markets CORE Equity Portfolio (Share Class R) Inc -U 3.84% £6,968.08 -£342.13 

InvestmentL&G Global Equity Index Inc -U 7.31% £13,272.25 -£434.39 

InvestmentAtlantic House Defined Returns (Share Class I 4%) Inc -U 3.02% £5,484.46 £1.80 

InvestmentRoyal London UK Dividend Growth Inc -U 5.15% £9,348.45 £210.69 

InvestmentVanguard Sterling Short-Term Money Market Inc -U 1.01% £1,832.11 £4.56 

InvestmentMGTS St Johns Property Authorised Trust Inc -U 7.55% £13,703.73 -£2.91 

InvestmentArtemis Corporate Bond Inc -U 4.03% £7,318.23 £8.02 

InvestmentAllspring (Lux) Worldwide Fund - Global Equity Enhanced Income Inc -U 7.77% £14,110.15 -£510.27 

InvestmentAtlantic House Uncorrelated Strategies (Hedged) Inc -U 2.00% £3,631.57 -£23.52 

GBP Cash

0.14%

£262.36

-

I have had a number of conversations with my adviser before I posted here. Their response has to been to shrug their shoulders and say 'we hear you' and to cite the macro economic events I've mentioned earlier as factors in my pension making no growth during this time period... Hence my decision to post here and get others' perspectives.

That's just bonkers, what is this, a competition to see how many different fund providers one can possibly get into a client's portfolio before they start asking questions (I'm not joking, that looks like a !!!!!! take). You should be asking your FA to explain his strategy. Quite clearly it isn't working, it actually looks just like the pot-luck random picking approach that I was referring to earlier in this thread. I would be looking to ditch the FA and rationalise that lot back to a small handful of low cost trackers.

dunstonh

Not much wonder you think investing is complex looking at that portfolio.  The illusion of complexity is perhaps intentional?

Nothing complex about that MPS.

 I quickly counted 20 in your list.  As I say, no wonder you perceive it as complex.  Perhaps I don't know what I don't know?

20 is not a lot.     Its similar to the DIY favourites Vanguard Lifestrategy and other multi-asset funds.   Unless yo consider those complex too?

That's just bonkers, what is this, a competition to see how many different fund providers one can possibly get into a client's portfolio before they start asking questions (I'm not joking, that looks like a !!!!!! take). You should be asking your FA to explain his strategy. Quite clearly it isn't working, it actually looks just like the pot-luck random picking approach that I was referring to earlier in this thread. I would be looking to ditch the FA and rationalise that lot back to a small handful of low cost trackers.

You cannot build a structured portfolio with a handful of low-cost trackers. You can get the number down a bit, but it's usually cheaper to stick to single-sector funds than to use a global tracker. Plus, with bonds and fixed interest, there isn't a single bond fund that gives diversification across all types.   So, you normally have to diversify across multiple bond funds to get all types covered.

Do you think funds like Vanguard lifestrategy or HSBC global strategy are bonkers?

Roger175

Also, why are all but one of those funds income as opposed to accumulation? (assuming I'm reading it correctly). Maybe I've missed something here, but I had always assumed one would invest primarily in accumulation funds during the accumulation period (ie, prior to commencing drawdown)