Level 3 survey on a newly refurbished house came back with £27.5k worth of urgent repairs

BikingBud

Bimboccio87 said:

gwynlas said:

Given it is a refurbishment being flipped to make a huge profit you could possibly still go ahead by reducing your offer. I would be looking at over double what surveyor estimates at given you would need cash and have to put up with the remedial works. Any other prospective purchaser would be in the same position as yourself regarding survey so it is likely property will linger on the market.

Thank you for the advice!
Below the list ( not extensive) of most urgent findings:

See below comments from the surveyor.

d). Overall opinion The property has cracks indicative of the removal of walls. There are several urgent defects and maintenance considerations that require attention. There are also some important safety checks to be made. All items are detailed throughout this report. Listed Building Being in a conservation area might mean that your house is affected by special controls (called Article 4 Directions).

CONDITION RATING: Defects that are serious and/or need to be repaired, replaced or investigated urgently.

a) CHIMNEY DESCRIPTION

There is brickwork to the multiple-flue chimney. One of the pots appears open. This could result in rainwater penetration causing damp patches to appear within the building. Birds can also become trapped in disused flues. It is therefore recommended that redundant flues are fitted with capping vents and that flues serving appliances are fitted with cowls, subject to the appropriate specialist advice as mentioned under the heading of internal chimney. A closer inspection of the chimney can be made by the contractor, who should carry out any other necessary repairs that cannot be seen from ground level. Works to this part of the property are likely to require the erection of scaffolding. 

There are plants growing out of the chimney pot. The plants and their roots should be removed from the chimney as they are likely to cause damage as they grow.

There are small areas of perished masonry. Masonry perishes as a result of dampness that penetrates into the chimney and then expands during periods of frost, causing the surface of the masonry to break away. Once the fair face of brickwork or stonework has perished, degradation accelerates as the areas that have perished become more absorbent.

The mortar flaunching that is intended to secure the chimney pots in position appears to have perished. It will therefore be necessary to allow for renewing the flaunching in lime-based mortar. Lime- based mortar should be used as this allows the masonry to breathe and any moisture to escape.

 Some repointing is required. Repointing walls of the property, including chimneys, should be carried out with a lime-based mortar to allow the bricks to breathe and help prevent them from perishing easily. The brickwork should be raked out to a depth of 2cm, prior to any work being carried out, to create a good key for the new lime-based mortar.

b) ROOF COVERINGS

FRONT ELEVATION 

There are damaged/missing tiles. It is possible to re-fix these and this should be done to help prevent rainwater penetration and rot to the roofing timbers. The roof tiling contractor should lift some tiles in the affected areas to check that any potential leaks have not damaged the battens and rafter tops below. An allowance should, therefore, be made for implementing this work. 

REAR ELEVATION 

The condition of this part of the property is similar to the front elevation, with damaged and slipped tiles. Please see advice given above. In addition, sky lights have been installed in the roof slope. This would have required Building Regulation approval. Your legal advisor should obtain any necessary paperwork in relation to its installation. If no paper is forthcoming then the installation should be checked by a structural engineer as the installation could have affected the structural integrity of the roof. As a general piece of advice, skylights tend to deteriorate more quickly than windows as they are more open to exposure from weathering. You should monitor the skylights for any signs of condensation between the panes as this can be an early indication of defective or leaking seals

 The felt roof covering to the utility room is in a poor condition. The roof could be leaking for some time without it being visible internally, and this could cause rot to roof timber and damage to other parts of the building. It is recommended that an allowance is made for renewing the flat roof covering. This should be carried out by a reputable roofing contractor. We cannot truly comment on the bathroom roof covering as it could not be fully seen. Although, we suspect it is of the same age, we would, therefore, recommend that you budget for a replacement.  

d). External wall structure and/or structural frame

RIGHT ELEVATION 

There is cracking to the right elevation that is likely to be caused by faulty drainage. A specialist drainage contractor report will, therefore, be required, which should involve a water retention test, possibly followed by a CCTV inspection. If a defect is found, it is likely that the drains will be able to be sleeved. If the cracking opens up again after any drainage repairs, further advice should be obtained from a structural engineer, as further work to support the property could be required.

(e). External wall finishes

FRONT ELEVATION 

We should mention that cement render on solid brick walls is not ideal, as it can lock in moisture and damage the brickwork beneath. In addition, we observed hairline shrinkage cracks. This will help to trap moisture, leading to dampness and damage. It will be necessary to allow for removal of the render by a reputable and appropriately experienced exterior contractor. Any re-rendering should be carried out with a lime render using a breathable decorative finish, such as mineral paint. You should search the Federation of Master Builders Register, which is available online, for contractors who are experienced in working with lime based products. 

There appears to be impervious masonry paint to the stone sills and canopy. This type of paint can help to cause damage to the sill and dampness internally. We, therefore, recommend that the paint is removed. However, sandblasting should be avoided, as this can help to cause surface damage to the masonry, increasing the rate at which it deteriorates.

RIGHT ELEVATION

Same as above : The condition of this part of the property is similar to the front elevation, with damaged render and impervious masonry paint to the sill. Please see advice given above.

REAR ELEVATION

There is a pointed masonry and composite clad external wall finish: There is what appears to be sand and cement pointed mortar joints to the brickwork of the bathroom extension. This material is not ideal and is likely to cause damage over time. Water becomes trapped in the edge of the masonry and when there are freezing conditions, the water expands, which can cause the face of the masonry to perish. It could prove beneficial to have a reputable and experienced building contractor to rake the joints out to a depth of around 2cm and repoint the masonry with a lime mortar, which should help the brickwork breathe. You should search the Federation of Master Builders register, which is available online, for contractors who have experience with lime building products.

f). Damp proof course

REAR ELEVATION 

There is no visible evidence of a damp proof course (DPC) to the property. The decking has been constructed tightly against the wall. This has left the DPC too low and contributed to dampness internally. See damp section. We would recommend that the decking is cut back 50mm from the wall. This work should be undertaken by a suitably qualified journey contractor.

g) sub floor ventilation 

FRONT ELEVATION

There is 1 subfloor vent: The subfloor ventilation has been restricted by the solid floors in the kitchen and dining room. See internal floor section

k) external joinery

FRONT ELEVATION 

We observed wet rot to the external joinery. It will be necessary to allow for implementing appropriate repair works. You should be aware that scaffolding could be required and this will ultimately result in higher repair costs. Simply cladding timber with PVC is a sub-standard practice, as this can actually cause the timber to deteriorate more rapidly and should be avoided. 

4. Internal building inspection

a). Ceilings

The dining room ceiling and top bedroom are of timber boards, which is not considered to be fire retardant. In the interest of safety, we strongly recommend you have the timber replaced with plasterboard and finishing plaster.

(b). Internal wall and partitions

Walls appear to have been removed from the living room, dining room and kitchen. The removal of any walls should have been implemented with Local Authority Building Regulation approval and your legal advisers should confirm that all appropriate documentation is in place. However, we observed cracks to the left side wall near the bottom of stairs that have been filled and they appear to be associated with the removal of the wall. Even if Building Regulation documentation is available, this is not confirmation of structural adequacy. A structural engineers specification of repair should be obtained. Any repairs should then be carried out by a suitably qualified building contractor. 

The walls and partitions are similarly finished as described above. We observed staining next to the back doors. This appears to be caused by damp. See damp section.

c). Fireplace, flues and chimney breasts

Support has been removed from the chimney breast below in the back bedroom and dining room. It is essential that Building Regulation approval was obtained for this work as we cannot see the support that should have been installed and, therefore, we cannot comment on its adequacy. If Building Regulation approval is not forthcoming, then an invasive inspection should be undertaken by a structural engineer to confirm support is in place.

e). Fixed joinery

 The windows to all of the first floor habitable rooms have been checked, and the back bedroom windows do not comply with current Building Regulations with regard to adequate escape in the event of fire. New windows or steps may be required to bring the means of escape up to modern standards. It is recommended that this is addressed by a FENSA (Fenestration Self-Assessment scheme) registered specialist.

(i). Dampness and timber defects

Dampness was observed either side of the french doors that appears to been caused by bridging of the DPC by decking. Although dealing with dampness can be a process of elimination and various issues can sometimes interact. This can also be caused by a missing, failed or bridged DPC (Damp Proof Course)/DPM (Damp Proof Membrane). Or where the Damp Proof Membrane was not tied in to the Damp Proof Course/bridging of the plaster behind the skirting. However, this could not be confirmed without further invasive investigations. We would recommend that an independent PCA registered damp proofing specialist undertake an invasive investigation and prepare a specification of necessary remedial work.

(f). Plumbing

No significant defects were apparent to the visible plumbing. However, we should make you aware that properties of this age are often found to have lead rising mains, which are thought to cause brain damage, especially in young and unborn children. This should be investigated by a reputable plumbing contractor, who should confirm the material of the water main. If lead is found, the water from the taps should be tested by the local water company to see if any lead is present in the water. If lead is present, any offending pipework should be replaced. The test carried out by the local water company is sometimes free.

h). Drainage

Grounds

We observed roots in the drainage chamber. As mentioned above, regarding parts of the building, a specialist drainage contractor's report is required and the appropriate action is required as already explained in the walls section.

i). Soil vent pipes

Grounds

The soil vent pipe does not have a protection cage. It is important to have a cage fitted to prevent birds from becoming trapped in the pipe, as blockages can cause gases to build up within the drainage and then cause the release of bad odours into and/or around the home.

🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

Far too many issues for me, I would have bought at the previous price and then made the necessary works, in the full knowledge of what was wrong and what was being done. Similar to a 20 year old ford escort being resprayed in the full knowledge that the floorpan and sills are shot, was Swiss Tony involved?

It has not been refurbished, it has been tarted up and I would be 🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️🏃‍♂️‍➡️

AlexMac

I look forward to you (hopefully) updating us with the outcome and share others’ concerns about whether it’s worth pursuing this further. 

I’d also add to @BarelySentientAI’s excellent analysis; the timber cladding on the ceilings might just be an irrelevantly naff 1970’s fashion statement, but it’s equally likely to be holding up a loose lath and plaster ceiling? So add that to the list. 

Even if there is Building Control sign off on the potentially dangerous removal of internal walls and chimney breasts, the £27.6k remedial cost estimate seems hugely optimistic. And I’m doubtful that there will be certs, unless they are from one of these dodgy private sector BC agents who prioritise their developer clients. 

(Two of my neighbours have spent many tens of thousands remedying problems on a pair of new built semis whose 2014-15 construction  was overseen by a “regulated” outfit called LBC whose website boasts ;
-“our building control process provides added value – reducing unnecessary bureaucracy, delays and costs for our clients…”. 

I used the pukka Council BC officer on my own project and he was scathing about firms like this )

So unless you secure a £50k plus price cut and are happy to live in a building site…?

I’m not afraid of a project; I bought a similar Victorian wreck in 1975 and again in 1997; both needing wiring, plumbing, c/h, kitchens, bathrooms and weatherproofing. But in each case I started with a new roof!  Why didn’t your seller?

BikingBud

Bimboccio87 said:

BikingBud said:

How about:

Level 3 survey on a newly refurbished flipped house came back with £27.5k worth of urgent repairs 

Bimboccio87 said:

Greetings everyone,

We are a married couple not new to the buying/selling process.
A few months back we ve made the decision to move out of London and purchase a house deeper into Kent.
We have found a 3 bed Victorian end of terrace in an area we like and made an
offer which was accepted.
Please note this property was purchased by the current investors owners just a year ago for 200K less than what they re selling, expecting purchasers to cough up for the bodge job  it to us on the premise it had been fully refurbished top to bottom ( which it looked like when we viewed it).
We went ahead with a level 3 survey and only just heard back with a very long list of red/urgent flagged issues totaling £27.5k in repairs ( not counting ambers and few other over cautious attempts by the surveyors).
We appreciate that older house will
alway have issues ( we have lived in a Victorian flat for 7 years now) and surveyors tend the be over cautious, however it has left us more than a bit concerned given the house looked (at glance) in a pretty good shape.
happy to share findings on here if someone is in a position to help ( based on knowledge or previous experience) as we are not very clear on what to
do going next!
any help, assistance or advice would be very much appreciated!
tia

 Have you queried it with the EA?

What is the percentage uplift?

Did you query why the £200k uplift before you went to view?

Did you ask what they had done, new roof, complete rewire, smart lighting, uprated insulation, new plumbing (new hot water cylinder) and heating, underfloor heating, new kitchen, equipped for technology or even all tech installed? Or as it might appear, it's all fur coat and no knickers as they say!

Who had done it, credentials of the trades involved or "mates in the trade"? 

If they had any guarantees and are they transferrable?

If after addressing the repairs/corrective actions would the house be "maintenance free" for an extended period and would you be content?

Our Solicitors have raised the question of the £200k uplift on price and are yet to receive a response.

The house was purchased for £240k and a bit, our offer was £445k and although it’s not a bad price for the area  it was based on the assumption that everything was “good” with the property itself!
it must have been in a very bad shape to begin with given the price, on the surface it has had a complete overhaul, wiring, plumbing, new kitchen, bathroom…..the lot essentially.
it isn’t the highest or nicest of specs, but ultimately we were ready to stomach that for a sound property and put our stamp on it as the time went by.
Any familiarity with the finding? Would this be “normal” to a degree given the period it was constructed or are these realistically cause for concern?
thanks again

Apart from the roof and the structural issues and the damp and the growth in the drains.

There is sometimes great scepticism on this site about surveyors and the comments and advice they provide. However, a competent person, the surveyor who you paid to protect your interests has viewed the property and given you suitable notification of the issues. 

Did they give you a value for the property or just the potential costs to correct? Have you discussed with the surveyor or just read the report?

Call them and ask "would they purchase?" 

I cannot in any manner, given the observations you provide on here, consider it a sound property.

Please take a step back and try to consider this wholly as a business decision. I asked before:

If after addressing the repairs/corrective actions would the house be "maintenance free" for an extended period and would you be content?

Subsidising a property flipper to £200k and still having to conduct basic corrective work to the roof and structure and then some extra to put your own stamp on indicates to my mind it is not.

propertyrental

I bet there's a fancy new kitchen and bathroom(s), and new wallpaper or coat of farrow-ball paint? Enough to seduce someone into buying a nicely presented property with the minimum of cash expended.

Some of those items cost peanuts to fix (eg chimney cowlings) but why would any developer not fix them on a refurbishment? Other items are potentially more expensive (impossible to comment of the recommended cost), but given it's a Listed Building costs will inevitably be higher than otherwise, and solutions more limited (eg pvc on external woodwork/soffits etc?).

A 'refurbishment' that has clearly ignored so many issues is not one I would pay a premium for. Either walk away, or make an offer based on a similar un-refurbished local property price, and have sufficient extra funds available to rectify the issues.

edgex

Bimboccio87 said:

BikingBud said:

How about:

Level 3 survey on a newly refurbished flipped house came back with £27.5k worth of urgent repairs 

Bimboccio87 said:

Greetings everyone,

We are a married couple not new to the buying/selling process.
A few months back we ve made the decision to move out of London and purchase a house deeper into Kent.
We have found a 3 bed Victorian end of terrace in an area we like and made an
offer which was accepted.
Please note this property was purchased by the current investors owners just a year ago for 200K less than what they re selling, expecting purchasers to cough up for the bodge job  it to us on the premise it had been fully refurbished top to bottom ( which it looked like when we viewed it).
We went ahead with a level 3 survey and only just heard back with a very long list of red/urgent flagged issues totaling £27.5k in repairs ( not counting ambers and few other over cautious attempts by the surveyors).
We appreciate that older house will
alway have issues ( we have lived in a Victorian flat for 7 years now) and surveyors tend the be over cautious, however it has left us more than a bit concerned given the house looked (at glance) in a pretty good shape.
happy to share findings on here if someone is in a position to help ( based on knowledge or previous experience) as we are not very clear on what to
do going next!
any help, assistance or advice would be very much appreciated!
tia

 Have you queried it with the EA?

What is the percentage uplift?

Did you query why the £200k uplift before you went to view?

Did you ask what they had done, new roof, complete rewire, smart lighting, uprated insulation, new plumbing (new hot water cylinder) and heating, underfloor heating, new kitchen, equipped for technology or even all tech installed? Or as it might appear, it's all fur coat and no knickers as they say!

Who had done it, credentials of the trades involved or "mates in the trade"? 

If they had any guarantees and are they transferrable?

If after addressing the repairs/corrective actions would the house be "maintenance free" for an extended period and would you be content?

Our Solicitors have raised the question of the £200k uplift on price and are yet to receive a response.

The house was purchased for £240k and a bit, our offer was £445k and although it’s not a bad price for the area  it was based on the assumption that everything was “good” with the property itself!
it must have been in a very bad shape to begin with given the price, on the surface it has had a complete overhaul, wiring, plumbing, new kitchen, bathroom…..the lot essentially.
it isn’t the highest or nicest of specs, but ultimately we were ready to stomach that for a sound property and put our stamp on it as the time went by.
Any familiarity with the finding? Would this be “normal” to a degree given the period it was constructed or are these realistically cause for concern?
thanks again

But wiring & plumbing aren't 'surface' things.
IF they've been done, then they can provide the paperwork to prove it. Invoice & completion/test certificate from the electrician. Is the fusebox/consumer unit new?
New heating sysytem? Again, there will be paperwork.
Is the external rendering & cladding new? If so, if there was a large enough % of the external walls impacted, then Building Standards will want to know whats been done about insulating those walls.
Internal walls & chimney breasts removed. Where's the structural surveyors paperwork?

Hoenir

Grizebeck said:

FreeBear said:

Bimboccio87 said: The house was purchased for £240k and a bit, our offer was £445k and although it’s not a bad price for the area  it was based on the assumption that everything was “good” with the property itself!

If the flippers haven't bothered to fix the easy & visible stuff like slipped tiles, what else have they skimped on ?

I'd certainly be looking very closely at Building Regs compliance and would insist on seeing structural engineer calculation for supports.

I often think surveys are a waste of time but in this case the survey fee has probably saved them a lot of money in the long run

A while ago. Had the same. The level 3 report ran to 12 pages.  Property value was lowered by £50k.  The property disappeared off the market and didn't resell in the 5 years I occassionally looked afterwards. We were even treated to the smell of bread in the oven.  A cup of tea along with endless photos of the refurbishment undertaken. Such was the planning behind the attempted deceit. Even got the EA , a major chain, to refund the surveyors fee. 

Bimboccio87

Very fair and valid responses and I am glad I have posted on here as it makes it somewhat easier for me to step back and make a decision.
As mentioned , we are not new to the buying process and at the time i sensed when walking in that given the basic finishes there could be more to it than the untrained eye could see and
for that reason we went for the survey and a very detailed one.
we are still waiting for them to provide all
proof, details and documentation of the work carried out and ultimately given the findings if we are to go ahead we wouldn’t be paying what we initially offered  for it .
we are speaking to the surveyors next week at which point we ll have a much clearer view on what to do.
To reply to a previous response, yes if we get it for a price that takes into consideration what has been found then we d have no problem with it , we ve done that in the past and it worked perfectly for us as we managed the process/cost and finishes ourselves!
will keep you all posted
thanks again!

RHemmings

stuart45 said:

You need to list the major faults to begin with. House flippers can be good at doing all the cosmetic work, and leaving out some of the structural work. 
Remember that they are doing this to make money, and a lot are only concerned with making the maximum from minimum outlay. I've done plenty of work for developers over the years and I wouldn't trust most of them.

This is exactly what scares me about flipped houses. 

Grizebeck

I guess would you prepared to rip out what they have done (badly) and start again ) (at the right place) then go for it
The one we did was old and dated. No issue as got very much below asking and ripped it out and started again no scrimping
Can you bare to rip out the kitchen etc because it's hiding lots of nasty stuff!

Knock of 150k !!!!

daveyjp

A relative recently looked at a holiday flat which had been 'fully refurbished'.  This included removing a chimney from a 150 year old property and slating the hole over.  They helpfully left the chimney breasts in place and tried to pass off the huge areas of damp as 'drying plaster' - on  refurb job which was finished months ago.

Google street view history is a great resource for assessing what has and hasn't been done to a property.