Euro Car Parks NTK

13zero8

Received the following PCN / NTK in the post a few days ago. I've read through the newbies thread and will follow the advice/steps.

But here is the story so far.....

I was picking up my daughter and her belongings from her Uni accommodation. Before loading I asked the accommodation staff if it's ok to stop to load. They said yes, and one even helped load up the vehicle.

The buildings are on a shared site, and we parked up on what looks like (and is) a private road within it.

The accommodation is owned by one company, the site is owned by another company.

After receiving the PCN, I contacted the accommodation and asked them to assist in cancelling the PCN based on the fact that they said it was ok for us to stop and load, but they refused, giving the reasons that they've had loads of discussions in the past with the site/land owner to have PCNs cancelled but with no luck.

I've tried to get contact details for the land owner but apparently you can only write to them by post.

Now like I said, I'll follow the steps in the newbies thread, but wondering (long shot) if the PCN is not valid because of the following...

The PCN states "Time in the car park" and gives a duration of 36 minutes. According to the accommodation staff, there is a 15 min loading allowance.

The thing is, where I was loading wasn't a car park. There isn't a car park in the road I was on. There is a small car park elsewhere on the site but I didn't enter it, I stayed only on the access roads.

Here is a screenshot of the site...




The red line was my route. The green box is roughly where the road becomes private. The blue box is apparently where there is a Euro Car Parks sign on a wall advising of restrictions. I can't confirm this as it's too far for me to go and have a look. We were loading at the little red google pin thing. The yellow box is the camera that caught me. It's hard to tell from the PCN photos but I think the photos were taken as I passed the end of that final stretch of road near the blue box.

So as you'll see, no car park, it's just a road. All very misleading... "time in the car park", but the contravention is "vehicle was parked in a no parking area", with the photos showing a close up of our vehicle driving on a road. So I've effectively been issued with a PCN for being on a road beyond a point on their land for longer than they like.

Again, long shot, and probably an argument for later in the process, if at all. Just wanted to get thoughts on it.

Here is the PCN...

Gr1pr

Nothing makes a private parking charge invalid, its just an invoice in an unregulated industry 

If it is a no parking area, then there was no parking contract on offer, so it failed the contractual basic test of NO OFFER, NO CONSIDERATION = NO CONTRACT, meaning that the driver cannot contract to do that which is forbidden, it may not be a car park, but probably is private property 

The Jopson versus Homeguard appeal may apply here ,  that loading and unloading is not parking, but dont expect a private parking company to agree, they are extremely unlikely to cancel the PCN 

LDast

Winnable in court if you've got the bottle to persevere.

13zero8

Thanks. Also noticed that the address of the alleged car park is Kingsmead Road, however the road where we were stopped/loading is another road name.

The more I look at those photos vs the site, the more I'm confused about where I was when snapped. And the more I read the back of the parking charge notice, it's clear they are claiming I was in their car park, which it isn't and I wasn't.

Coupon-mad

Appeal it as the keeper (not saying who was driving) stating that the car was neither in a 'car park' nor in Kingsmead Road, nor in a 'no parking area' and nor was it parked.  It was used for authorised loading: picking up a student and her belongings from her Uni accommodation. Before loading, the driver asked the accommodation staff for permission to stop to load. They said yes, and one even helped load up the vehicle.

There was no contractual breach, very poor signs (not seen) and the NTK was not POFA compliant because it failed to correctly state and identify the private land where the car actually stopped for authorised loading, which was not Kingsmead Road.

13zero8

Coupon-mad said:

Appeal it as the keeper (not saying who was driving) stating that the car was neither in a 'car park' nor in Kingsmead Road, nor in a 'no parking area' and nor was it parked.  It was used for authorised loading: picking up a student and her belongings from her Uni accommodation. Before loading, the driver asked the accommodation staff for permission to stop to load. They said yes, and one even helped load up the vehicle.

There was no contractual breach, very poor signs (not seen) and the NTK was not POFA compliant because it failed to correctly state and identify the private land where the car actually stopped for authorised loading, which was not Kingsmead Road.

Thanks. Should my appeal be written based only on that, or should I add it to and include the template "one size fits all" first appeal from the newbies thread too? 

Gr1pr

Stick to the above only, bespoke 

13zero8

Ok, so I appealed to ECP and they rejected it.

Is my next step to do a POPLA appeal immediately, or am I supposed to wait to see ECP's next move? I've read the newbies thread but wasn't quite sure of the next step.


Here is my ECP appeal and the rejection:

I am appealing the Parking Charge Notice on the following grounds:

Your Parking Charge Notice states multiple times that the vehicle was parked in a 'Car Park' at The Riverside, Kingsmead Road, Canterbury, CT1 1BN. This is incorrect, the car was neither parked in a 'Car Park' nor parked in Kingsmead Road at any time.

Your Parking Charge Notice also states that the vehicle was parked in a 'No Parking area'. This contradicts the claim that the car was parked in a 'Car Park'. It is either a 'Car Park' or a 'No Parking area', it can't be both.

On the Parking Charge Notice's 'Date of Event' the vehicle was used only for picking up a student and her belongings from her University accommodation. The vehicle was not parked, it was loading, and this was at Riverside Student Quarter on Sturry Road. Before loading, the driver asked the accommodation staff for permission to stop and load. They gave permission, and one even helped to load the vehicle. 

There was no contractual breach, there were no signs or very poor signs not seen, the vehicle did not park, and the Parking Charge Notice is not POFA compliant because it failed to correctly state and identify where the car actually stopped for authorised loading.

I trust you will cancel the Parking Charge Notice based on all of the above, and I look forward to your reply on the matter.



Euro Car Parks rejection of appeal:

Gr1pr

Popla appeal is next, assuming that you have a popla code, post 3 in the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

13zero8

POPLA Decision:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81134174/#Comment_81134174 

Gr1pr

Wow, excellent news , ECP lost

No contract to park, should have been treapass but wasn't issued as a trespass, so you won your Popla appeal 

Well done, people should learn from this decision, trespass is not parking