Item not as described - false advertising advice

DarwinsFinest

I recently purchased a set of plants from a UK based gardening website, they were advertised as being 2-3 foot tall.

Upon delivery, the plants came in around a 3 foot tall box, however, the plants were not packaged well and the plastic pots they came in were broken, they soil had gone everywhere and the plants were loose in a black plastic bag.  As I was going on holiday I put them in soil in a pot with water and would sort it out when I came back.

When I came back from holiday, I took a photo of the plants.  I stretched them out and put a tape measure next to them, and from the longest root tip to the tallest leaf tip the plants were a foot in height.

Needless to say, I sent this to the company and they are not at all interested in my complaint that they were false advertising, and I was not happy with what I had received and I wanted a refund. They initially offer half of what I paid.

I did not accept this offer and went back and again mentioned the same as above.  In addition, they also deleted my one star review.

They told me that I needed to have the original pots and any labels (no labels came with the plants and as the pots were broken, I had thrown them out).  I informed them of this, and reiterated that in my original email I have also attached my order/invoice and gave them the order number so that they could see this on their website also.

They then came back to say that they needed photos of the plants in their original plastic pots to show the height of them.  I explained that these were broken in transit and that actually, if I had taken photos of them in their pots, they would be even smaller than the photos I had taken of them stretched out (because the roots would have been squashed/coiled around the bottom of the pots).

Annoyingly, I paid on debit card so cannot request a charge back so I would like to know what my next options are.  They do not seem to care that they are false advertising products/products are not as described, nor my consumer rights around this and the fact they removed my one star review just confirms even further that they are a deceitful company.

Should this be raised with trading standards? should I be looking to log it with the small claims court?  Any help would be appreciated.

DullGreyGuy

Debit cards allow chargebacks however it's likely that you'd have to show evidence of having returned the items before that will be entertained. 

Trading standards in our area at least dont take direct report from consumers, they push you to Citizens Advice and say that they'll pass relevant cases to Trading Standards. 

Presumably you haven't returned the plants and so unless you do your court claim would be for the price difference between a 1' and 2' plant... is that worth your time and effort?

PHK

Did you take photos when they arrived. In my view unless you've got evidence then you are in a very weak position.  

Grumpy_chap

Were the plants advertised as "being 2-3 ft tall" when received or when fully grown?

If the plants are alive and will grow normally, there is probably no loss (as such) against which there is anything to claim.

DarwinsFinest said:

I recently purchased a set of plants from a UK based gardening website, they were advertised as being 2-3 foot tall.

Upon delivery, the plants came in around a 3 foot tall box, however, the plants were not packaged well and the plastic pots they came in were broken, they soil had gone everywhere and the plants were loose in a black plastic bag.  As I was going on holiday I put them in soil in a pot with water and would sort it out when I came back.

When I came back from holiday, I took a photo of the plants.  I stretched them out and put a tape measure next to them, and from the longest root tip to the tallest leaf tip the plants were a foot in height.

Needless to say, I sent this to the company and they are not at all interested in my complaint that they were false advertising, and I was not happy with what I had received and I wanted a refund. They initially offer half of what I paid.

I did not accept this offer and went back and again mentioned the same as above.  In addition, they also deleted my one star review.

They told me that I needed to have the original pots and any labels (no labels came with the plants and as the pots were broken, I had thrown them out).  I informed them of this, and reiterated that in my original email I have also attached my order/invoice and gave them the order number so that they could see this on their website also.

They then came back to say that they needed photos of the plants in their original plastic pots to show the height of them.  I explained that these were broken in transit and that actually, if I had taken photos of them in their pots, they would be even smaller than the photos I had taken of them stretched out (because the roots would have been squashed/coiled around the bottom of the pots).

Annoyingly, I paid on debit card so cannot request a charge back so I would like to know what my next options are.  They do not seem to care that they are false advertising products/products are not as described, nor my consumer rights around this and the fact they removed my one star review just confirms even further that they are a deceitful company.

Should this be raised with trading standards? should I be looking to log it with the small claims court?  Any help would be appreciated.

sheramber

Can you give a link to the item?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

PHK said:

Did you take photos when they arrived. In my view unless you've got evidence then you are in a very weak position.  

goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.

Unless someone is accusing OP of being dishonest I don’t see what difference the timing of the photos make? 

eskbanker

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said: 

goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.

But surely that wording needs additional context or interpretation, especially when dealing with items that grow, or perishable ones for that matter, where the condition of the goods will change over time?

PHK

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

Did you take photos when they arrived. In my view unless you've got evidence then you are in a very weak position.  

goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.

Unless someone is accusing OP of being dishonest I don’t see what difference the timing of the photos make? 

This is a classic example of woodenly quoting legislation.
 

It’s not like a TV that sits there unchanging. 

These are living products. They will have changed/grown/withered. Whilst the OP was on holiday they were not tended too. 

How is the OP to claim for improper packaging if they have no photos of the condition of the delivery?

Ergates

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

Did you take photos when they arrived. In my view unless you've got evidence then you are in a very weak position.  

goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.

Unless someone is accusing OP of being dishonest I don’t see what difference the timing of the photos make? 

The laws make specific restrictions for perishable items and living plants are, quite obviously *perishable* - otherwise this could lead to some patently absurd situations.   If you bought a living plant, then left it locked in a cupboard without feed or water for 5 months, and it died - you would very obviously not be able to make a claim under the assumption that the plant must have been dead on delivery.

Ergates

Grumpy_chap said:

Were the plants advertised as "being 2-3 ft tall" when received or when fully grown?

If the plants are alive and will grow normally, there is probably no loss (as such) against which there is anything to claim.

DarwinsFinest said:

I recently purchased a set of plants from a UK based gardening website, they were advertised as being 2-3 foot tall.

Upon delivery, the plants came in around a 3 foot tall box, however, the plants were not packaged well and the plastic pots they came in were broken, they soil had gone everywhere and the plants were loose in a black plastic bag.  As I was going on holiday I put them in soil in a pot with water and would sort it out when I came back.

When I came back from holiday, I took a photo of the plants.  I stretched them out and put a tape measure next to them, and from the longest root tip to the tallest leaf tip the plants were a foot in height.

Needless to say, I sent this to the company and they are not at all interested in my complaint that they were false advertising, and I was not happy with what I had received and I wanted a refund. They initially offer half of what I paid.

I did not accept this offer and went back and again mentioned the same as above.  In addition, they also deleted my one star review.

They told me that I needed to have the original pots and any labels (no labels came with the plants and as the pots were broken, I had thrown them out).  I informed them of this, and reiterated that in my original email I have also attached my order/invoice and gave them the order number so that they could see this on their website also.

They then came back to say that they needed photos of the plants in their original plastic pots to show the height of them.  I explained that these were broken in transit and that actually, if I had taken photos of them in their pots, they would be even smaller than the photos I had taken of them stretched out (because the roots would have been squashed/coiled around the bottom of the pots).

Annoyingly, I paid on debit card so cannot request a charge back so I would like to know what my next options are.  They do not seem to care that they are false advertising products/products are not as described, nor my consumer rights around this and the fact they removed my one star review just confirms even further that they are a deceitful company.

Should this be raised with trading standards? should I be looking to log it with the small claims court?  Any help would be appreciated.

This is, I think, the key point here that we need OP to answer:  The heights marked on plants (in garden centres) are usually the size of the fully grown plant  (so you know what to expect when planting it) - *not* the size of the plant when you buy it.   I don't know if this is different when ordering plants online.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Ergates said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

PHK said:

Did you take photos when they arrived. In my view unless you've got evidence then you are in a very weak position.  

goods which do not conform to the contract at any time within the period of six months beginning with the day on which the goods were delivered to the consumer must be taken not to have conformed to it on that day.

Unless someone is accusing OP of being dishonest I don’t see what difference the timing of the photos make? 

The laws make specific restrictions for perishable items and living plants are, quite obviously *perishable* - otherwise this could lead to some patently absurd situations.   If you bought a living plant, then left it locked in a cupboard without feed or water for 5 months, and it died - you would very obviously not be able to make a claim under the assumption that the plant must have been dead on delivery.

Hi @Ergates

If the consumer is exercising their right to cancel under the cancellation regs you are correct that goods which are liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly are excluded from that right but OP is seeking a remedy under the Consumer Rights Act as the goods do not conform to the contract in terms of the description.

If plants were excluded from this you could buy an acer, be sent some daisies and not have any come back.

If someone posted here to say their live plants died I agree with your thinking, did they take it out the box quickly, did they water it, plant it, use the right pH of soil and on it goes, however OP’s plants are still alive and can be returned alive (they survived the trip out, there is no reason they wouldn’t survive a trip back if returned correctly) which leads to the other point that it is debatable as to whether live plants are excluded from the right to cancel anyway.

Cut plants (e.g flowers for Mother’s Day) should be excluded but a live plant shouldn’t deteriorate or expire rapidly, indeed the opposite in it should live a long time, you can argue the points about what happened to it but you can also argue the same with any product and if the retailer provides the correct information they can reduce for diminished value so if they feel a plant is return in a condition that is unhealthy due to handling beyond what is necessary…. they can refund accordingly. 

Ergates said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Were the plants advertised as "being 2-3 ft tall" when received or when fully grown?

If the plants are alive and will grow normally, there is probably no loss (as such) against which there is anything to claim.

DarwinsFinest said:

I recently purchased a set of plants from a UK based gardening website, they were advertised as being 2-3 foot tall.

Upon delivery, the plants came in around a 3 foot tall box, however, the plants were not packaged well and the plastic pots they came in were broken, they soil had gone everywhere and the plants were loose in a black plastic bag.  As I was going on holiday I put them in soil in a pot with water and would sort it out when I came back.

When I came back from holiday, I took a photo of the plants.  I stretched them out and put a tape measure next to them, and from the longest root tip to the tallest leaf tip the plants were a foot in height.

Needless to say, I sent this to the company and they are not at all interested in my complaint that they were false advertising, and I was not happy with what I had received and I wanted a refund. They initially offer half of what I paid.

I did not accept this offer and went back and again mentioned the same as above.  In addition, they also deleted my one star review.

They told me that I needed to have the original pots and any labels (no labels came with the plants and as the pots were broken, I had thrown them out).  I informed them of this, and reiterated that in my original email I have also attached my order/invoice and gave them the order number so that they could see this on their website also.

They then came back to say that they needed photos of the plants in their original plastic pots to show the height of them.  I explained that these were broken in transit and that actually, if I had taken photos of them in their pots, they would be even smaller than the photos I had taken of them stretched out (because the roots would have been squashed/coiled around the bottom of the pots).

Annoyingly, I paid on debit card so cannot request a charge back so I would like to know what my next options are.  They do not seem to care that they are false advertising products/products are not as described, nor my consumer rights around this and the fact they removed my one star review just confirms even further that they are a deceitful company.

Should this be raised with trading standards? should I be looking to log it with the small claims court?  Any help would be appreciated.

This is, I think, the key point here that we need OP to answer:  The heights marked on plants (in garden centres) are usually the size of the fully grown plant  (so you know what to expect when planting it) - *not* the size of the plant when you buy it.   I don't know if this is different when ordering plants online.

 When buying plants online typically there is two sizes, one is the size the plant will typically grow to, the other is the size of plant you will receive.

The value of a plant depends upon it’s size, you might see a website selling a 10cm tall plant in a small pot for £5 and a 60cm tall plant in a larger pot for say £15.

I’d expect any plant retailer to be detailing the size you are going to get (unless it’s a small retailer with an actual photo but again they’d often use a measure to depict height), most also say the size it will grow to as part of the blurb telling you what the plant is all about (I.e typically growing to height of 150cm in 4 years with stunning purple flowers in late spring this plant makes an idea feature for your garden). 

If my waffle doesn’t explain it well this link should:

https://www.diy.com/departments/cordyline-pink-passion-outdoor-flowering-shrub-ideal-for-uk-gardens-compact-size-15-30cm-height-including-pot-/5051641539614_BQ.prd?fbt1=true 

As a side note some websites do seem to just sell by pot size, some with a general depiction of what to expect from such a pot size. 

Ideally anyone posting here who buys from a website would include a link to save questions or us guessing if an OP doesn’t return but c’est la vie. 

OP may be confusing the two, if they are they are but the idea plants are sold by the size you would receive is common