CEL Court Defence - Restaurant Related

eliza2811

Me and the driver went to have a curry back in Feb this year and ended up with a parking fine. So we were in a restaurant/pub we'd been to before on 25th Feb in the evening.  We spent about an hour in the restaurant, just the 2 of us.  

In April we received a PCN dated 15/04/24. Saying we'd failed to obtain a permit in accordance with the notified terms.   There is absolutely no payment involved or time limit, so its absolutely crazy in my opinion.  The PCN came from Civil Enforcement (CEL).  There was a camera in the car park that used APNR at one time and signs and you had to enter your car reg at the bar.  The new owners of the place are saying the APNR was left over from the previous owners. Ownership changed Nov 2022.  The new owners are saying loads of customers have gotten PCN's.  Don't remember seeing the car reg system back in February but no proof as I didn't go to the bar and the driver can't remember.  

The driver who I'm related to, has refused to pay the initial £60 and now we're up to £170 and a letter from DCBL.  I've appealed too late as the restaurant said they'd get the charge cancelled and they haven't been able to.  I did send proof of my debit card transaction to CEL for our meal payment but as said, I was too late to appeal.  I notice when I log on to the CEL website under our PCN number, there are no photos of our car whatsoever. Isn't normal to have those on a PCN?

Not sure what happens next.  I did identify the driver on the appeal, but does it matter as it wasn't accepted never mind refused ?

Thanks for reading my long waffling. Any advice would be grateful

Gr1pr

Nobody received a fine 

The keeper received the postal PCN due to the driver not authorising the VRM details at the bar, its that simple 

Has the keeper told CEL who was driving ? Giving their name and address. ?  Yes or No. ?

Who is receiving the debt collectors letters. ?  Keeper or driver. ?

Are they from DCB LTD. ?  OR, from DCB LEGAL LTD. ? 

eliza2811

Thanks for replying.

The keeper received the postal PCN due to the driver not authorising the VRM details at the bar, its that simple - We've got copies from emails and Whatspp messages from the restaurant owners to Customer Service at Creative Car Park (a sister company of CEL, i've been told) saying the system should have been offline from October last year.  So I don't believe the VRM tablet was there.  Now there is a camera in the car park, but just assumed it was a security one.  Didn't see any signs around as they'd probably been taken down.  But it was dark in Feb in the evening at 7pm.

Has the keeper told CEL who was driving ? Giving their name and address. ?  Yes or No. ? -  I identified the driver during the attempted appeal. This is all new to me.  

Who is receiving the debt collectors letters. ?  Keeper or driver. ?  - Keeper and driver are the same person and letters addressed to him.  He hates computers though so I'm doing the admin work.

Are they from DCB LTD. ?  OR, from DCB LEGAL LTD. ?  Report - Direct Collection Bailiffs Ltd

Gr1pr

So as the keeper and driver are the same person, it stays with them, ignore the debt collectors letters from DCB LTD 

Come back to this thread if he receives a formal LoC ( LBC. ) or if he receives a court claim pack from the CNBC in Northampton using MCOL, within the next 6 years 

Those last 2 need to be dealt with by the keeper, but not debt collectors letters 

Keep all correspondence and any pictures like signage etc safely for the next 6 years, just in case 

Dont expect them to go away, they wont 

LDast

Read the Newbies/FAQ thread.

eliza2811

Gr1pr said:

So as the keeper and driver are the same person, it stays with them, ignore the debt collectors letters from DCB LTD 

Come back to this thread if he receives a formal LoC ( LBC. ) or if he receives a court claim pack from the CNBC in Northampton using MCOL, within the next 6 years 

Those last 2 need to be dealt with by the keeper, but not debt collectors letters 

Keep all correspondence and any pictures like signage etc safely for the next 6 years, just in case 

Dont expect them to go away, they wont 

I shall be visiting the restaurant to keep updated with their communications with Creative Car Park and CEL, as some of their own suppliers of food got PCN's and a staff member 🤷🏼‍♀️ Thanks again 

Gr1pr

If the restaurant didn't contract with CEL and if they dont want them there, tell them to turn off the cameras and any link, the power off switches should do nicely 

Only a judge in civil court can decide if those keepers owe money, or not 

Nellymoser

Do you know if restaurant owners are the landowners of the car park.

My pcn photographs (different company) were 'awaiting upload' but they never ever appeared.

eliza2811

Nellymoser said:

Do you know if restaurant owners are the landowners of the car park.

My pcn photographs (different company) were 'awaiting upload' but they never ever appeared.

I don't know. Cheers 

Gr1pr

eliza2811 said:

Nellymoser said:

Do you know if restaurant owners are the landowners of the car park.

My pcn photographs (different company) were 'awaiting upload' but they never ever appeared.

I don't know. Cheers 

I would strongly suggest that you find out 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6337652/how-to-find-details-of-landowner

Nellymoser

I would also suggest you find out if the car park landowner has a current contract with CEL for managing this car park and issuing pcns. This is a must have if CEL are requesting and receiving vehicle keeper details from DVLA.

If there was to be no contract CEL and the DVLA would be in a spot of bother.