Screw you Barclaycard

jay1804

TobyCG said:

jay1804 said:

I believe you can only change to a different card using the App. I'm using the Barclays app on iPhone, go to Your cards > click on Barclaycard then under Manage credit there should be an option for Change to a different card . Then you are able to pick which card you want to transfer to, and it will take place on your next statement.

If you haven't got the option, stop spending on the card for a month or two and see if a offer becomes available. 

If you really want to screw Barclaycard then look for a different CC, Amex Cashback, Santander Edge come to mind and earn more than Barclaycard.

Yeah, no offers under that option at all unfortunately.

I'm likely going to get another card and use that instead and see what happens.  I was thinking about Amex but I'm concerned about it not being as widely accepted as Visa/MC.

Not looked at Santander yet but was looking at the HSBC Premier cards as a possibility.

A lot of people have this misconception, that Amex isn't widely accepted, however the amount of places has definitely increased in the recents years due to the card terminals (SumUp, Square, Zettle, ect)

https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/benefits/shopping/places-to-use-my-card/

born_again

35har1old said:

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

The best way to screw a credit card company IS to spend heavily on it and pay the balance in full by the due date. So, at least you have the warm reassurance that you've already been doing it for years. 

Start being a bit sloppy with paying in full, a bit of interest or fees here and there, etc and the offers will come flooding at you.

How do you think that "screws" them? Credit card companies still make loads of money through the fees they charge retailers so they're quite happy with full payers, that's why they offer the specific interest free exemption for paying in full. Plus even cashback with some cards. IIRC something like 60% of people pay in full every month.  

1) Because it costs them to provide the infrastructure/service/etc of providing a credit card.
2) Because they're offering a credit line for free

Sure, they make money through retailers fees etc but its a competitive, marginal, industry. They won't make any money from full-payers. Its all relative.

Of course they make money from full payers. Over half CC users are full payers, why would they want such customers if they didn't make money from them? And even give them cashback on top with some cards. If they didn't want them or weren't making money from them they'd simply charge interest from the purchase date to the payment date with no exemption for full payers. 

They like full payers, because they're a reliable rock solid income stream. Obviously they'd prefer it if you pay them interest as well, but they know that anyone who manages their finance properly is never going to pay interest at credit card rates. So if they did charge everyone interest from the purchase date, then full payers would close their cards and use debit cards instead.

But they want full payers, hence the specific interest exemption for them. 

As with any business they'll have loss leaders, for instance 0% offers, but they're always temporary time-limited offers which require action by the customer to avoid big fees/interest at the end. Paying a card in full every month requires zero action after setting up a DD to pay in full, and can last decades. They're not going to have ongoing permanent loss leaders for half their customer base. 

The interchange rate for UK personal credit cards used in the UK is capped at 0.3%. That's the total amount which goes to Visa or Mastercard, and they will likely pay some of that (but not all of it, otherwise they'd make nothing!) to your issuer in commission. Think about the costs of providing an account to you - as one example, it costs a fiver for them to issue a card and have it sent to you; assuming Barclaycard get all the interchange revenue (and they wont!) it'd take £1667 of UK spend to cover its cost. Every bit of paper you receive in the post will have cost them at least a quid now too. This is before you try and figure out the cost of providing a working service and fulfilling their obligations (incl S275).

There is no way they are making a profit on £12-20k UK annual spends paid in full, even giving you zero in rewards.

They want you to pay interest, or pay fees for other stuff like FX. The reason they don't charge interest until the payment due date is because literally the entire market doesn't, so their cards would be completely uncompetitive if they did.

So how are Santander offering 2% the first year with  cap of £15 - the fee £3 and if you applied recently you will receive a further £18 cashback 
Second year 1% capped again of £15- minus £3 not worth having after the first year.if Chase is still offering the1%
Also it sames to be a little pointless to have a large credit limit offered 
£1250 for 1st year would be sufficient allowing for a view errors when spending and say £2000 in the 2nd

Loss leader & the hope people will incur interest. Marketing do stuff like this to justify their jobs. Look we got XXX new accounts this year. Sad they never mention the true cost or that a lot never use the cards or close them later on.

Exactly the same as the bribe you get for switching a current account.

etienneg

jay1804 said:

A lot of people have this misconception, that Amex isn't widely accepted, however the amount of places has definitely increased in the recents years due to the card terminals (SumUp, Square, Zettle, ect)

I have found acceptance of Amex is mixed. It's certainly true that most supermarkets do take it. Some large suppliers definitely don't, though, such as British Gas (at least for energy) and insurance companies (LV=, Aviva).

jay1804

etienneg said:

jay1804 said:

A lot of people have this misconception, that Amex isn't widely accepted, however the amount of places has definitely increased in the recents years due to the card terminals (SumUp, Square, Zettle, ect)

I have found acceptance of Amex is mixed. It's certainly true that most supermarkets do take it. Some large suppliers definitely don't, though, such as British Gas (at least for energy) and insurance companies (LV=, Aviva).

In my experience, I have found Aviva does accept Amex payments.

Ectophile

TobyCG said:

I did think I could try applying for a second rewards card as a new account/customer but I decided not to in case it was refused due to my existing account and I'd then have a "credit refused" black mark on my record.  As a result I'll be looking at alternative providers.

If you have a good credit history, you shouldn't have any problem.  I run two credit cards, and have swapped cards from time to time.

There are many places now that do "pre-approval" , even this site: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/eligibility/credit-cards/search/ .  You tell them about yourself.  They do a soft credit search to verify your details, and tell you what cards you'll probably be accepted for.  They only do the full credit check if you go ahead and apply.

Albermarle

born_again said:

35har1old said:

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

The best way to screw a credit card company IS to spend heavily on it and pay the balance in full by the due date. So, at least you have the warm reassurance that you've already been doing it for years. 

Start being a bit sloppy with paying in full, a bit of interest or fees here and there, etc and the offers will come flooding at you.

How do you think that "screws" them? Credit card companies still make loads of money through the fees they charge retailers so they're quite happy with full payers, that's why they offer the specific interest free exemption for paying in full. Plus even cashback with some cards. IIRC something like 60% of people pay in full every month.  

1) Because it costs them to provide the infrastructure/service/etc of providing a credit card.
2) Because they're offering a credit line for free

Sure, they make money through retailers fees etc but its a competitive, marginal, industry. They won't make any money from full-payers. Its all relative.

Of course they make money from full payers. Over half CC users are full payers, why would they want such customers if they didn't make money from them? And even give them cashback on top with some cards. If they didn't want them or weren't making money from them they'd simply charge interest from the purchase date to the payment date with no exemption for full payers. 

They like full payers, because they're a reliable rock solid income stream. Obviously they'd prefer it if you pay them interest as well, but they know that anyone who manages their finance properly is never going to pay interest at credit card rates. So if they did charge everyone interest from the purchase date, then full payers would close their cards and use debit cards instead.

But they want full payers, hence the specific interest exemption for them. 

As with any business they'll have loss leaders, for instance 0% offers, but they're always temporary time-limited offers which require action by the customer to avoid big fees/interest at the end. Paying a card in full every month requires zero action after setting up a DD to pay in full, and can last decades. They're not going to have ongoing permanent loss leaders for half their customer base. 

The interchange rate for UK personal credit cards used in the UK is capped at 0.3%. That's the total amount which goes to Visa or Mastercard, and they will likely pay some of that (but not all of it, otherwise they'd make nothing!) to your issuer in commission. Think about the costs of providing an account to you - as one example, it costs a fiver for them to issue a card and have it sent to you; assuming Barclaycard get all the interchange revenue (and they wont!) it'd take £1667 of UK spend to cover its cost. Every bit of paper you receive in the post will have cost them at least a quid now too. This is before you try and figure out the cost of providing a working service and fulfilling their obligations (incl S275).

There is no way they are making a profit on £12-20k UK annual spends paid in full, even giving you zero in rewards.

They want you to pay interest, or pay fees for other stuff like FX. The reason they don't charge interest until the payment due date is because literally the entire market doesn't, so their cards would be completely uncompetitive if they did.

So how are Santander offering 2% the first year with  cap of £15 - the fee £3 and if you applied recently you will receive a further £18 cashback 
Second year 1% capped again of £15- minus £3 not worth having after the first year.if Chase is still offering the1%
Also it sames to be a little pointless to have a large credit limit offered 
£1250 for 1st year would be sufficient allowing for a view errors when spending and say £2000 in the 2nd

Loss leader & the hope people will incur interest. Marketing do stuff like this to justify their jobs. Look we got XXX new accounts this year. Sad they never mention the true cost or that a lot never use the cards or close them later on.

Exactly the same as the bribe you get for switching a current account.

Well they must have lost a lot of money on my BC .
0.5% rebate on all purchases + extra 1.5% on all supermarket and fuel purchases ( which is what it is mainly used for ) Always pay it off in full and have no other accounts/activity with them. So around £20 a month rebate for the last 20? years.
I always half expect it will be changed at some point, but so far not.

WillPS

35har1old said:

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

The best way to screw a credit card company IS to spend heavily on it and pay the balance in full by the due date. So, at least you have the warm reassurance that you've already been doing it for years. 

Start being a bit sloppy with paying in full, a bit of interest or fees here and there, etc and the offers will come flooding at you.

How do you think that "screws" them? Credit card companies still make loads of money through the fees they charge retailers so they're quite happy with full payers, that's why they offer the specific interest free exemption for paying in full. Plus even cashback with some cards. IIRC something like 60% of people pay in full every month.  

1) Because it costs them to provide the infrastructure/service/etc of providing a credit card.
2) Because they're offering a credit line for free

Sure, they make money through retailers fees etc but its a competitive, marginal, industry. They won't make any money from full-payers. Its all relative.

Of course they make money from full payers. Over half CC users are full payers, why would they want such customers if they didn't make money from them? And even give them cashback on top with some cards. If they didn't want them or weren't making money from them they'd simply charge interest from the purchase date to the payment date with no exemption for full payers. 

They like full payers, because they're a reliable rock solid income stream. Obviously they'd prefer it if you pay them interest as well, but they know that anyone who manages their finance properly is never going to pay interest at credit card rates. So if they did charge everyone interest from the purchase date, then full payers would close their cards and use debit cards instead.

But they want full payers, hence the specific interest exemption for them. 

As with any business they'll have loss leaders, for instance 0% offers, but they're always temporary time-limited offers which require action by the customer to avoid big fees/interest at the end. Paying a card in full every month requires zero action after setting up a DD to pay in full, and can last decades. They're not going to have ongoing permanent loss leaders for half their customer base. 

The interchange rate for UK personal credit cards used in the UK is capped at 0.3%. That's the total amount which goes to Visa or Mastercard, and they will likely pay some of that (but not all of it, otherwise they'd make nothing!) to your issuer in commission. Think about the costs of providing an account to you - as one example, it costs a fiver for them to issue a card and have it sent to you; assuming Barclaycard get all the interchange revenue (and they wont!) it'd take £1667 of UK spend to cover its cost. Every bit of paper you receive in the post will have cost them at least a quid now too. This is before you try and figure out the cost of providing a working service and fulfilling their obligations (incl S275).

There is no way they are making a profit on £12-20k UK annual spends paid in full, even giving you zero in rewards.

They want you to pay interest, or pay fees for other stuff like FX. The reason they don't charge interest until the payment due date is because literally the entire market doesn't, so their cards would be completely uncompetitive if they did.

So how are Santander offering 2% the first year with  cap of £15 - the fee £3 and if you applied recently you will receive a further £18 cashback 
Second year 1% capped again of £15- minus £3 not worth having after the first year.if Chase is still offering the1%
Also it sames to be a little pointless to have a large credit limit offered 
£1250 for 1st year would be sufficient allowing for a view errors when spending and say £2000 in the 2nd

Firstly, I never said card companies don't make money - they do. A proportion of Santander Edge customers will pay interest, like any other. May be more, may be less. What I said is that customers who pay in full lose the issuer money - and Santander's will lose money hand over fist among these customers.

Secondly, there is such a thing as 'loss leading'. For example, Santander pays cashback on bills via their 123 and Edge current accounts on DD payments for which they'll be receiving next-to-nothing. That doesn't mean their current account offer overall is not profitable tho.

WillPS

zagfles said:

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

The best way to screw a credit card company IS to spend heavily on it and pay the balance in full by the due date. So, at least you have the warm reassurance that you've already been doing it for years. 

Start being a bit sloppy with paying in full, a bit of interest or fees here and there, etc and the offers will come flooding at you.

How do you think that "screws" them? Credit card companies still make loads of money through the fees they charge retailers so they're quite happy with full payers, that's why they offer the specific interest free exemption for paying in full. Plus even cashback with some cards. IIRC something like 60% of people pay in full every month.  

1) Because it costs them to provide the infrastructure/service/etc of providing a credit card.
2) Because they're offering a credit line for free

Sure, they make money through retailers fees etc but its a competitive, marginal, industry. They won't make any money from full-payers. Its all relative.

Of course they make money from full payers. Over half CC users are full payers, why would they want such customers if they didn't make money from them? And even give them cashback on top with some cards. If they didn't want them or weren't making money from them they'd simply charge interest from the purchase date to the payment date with no exemption for full payers. 

They like full payers, because they're a reliable rock solid income stream. Obviously they'd prefer it if you pay them interest as well, but they know that anyone who manages their finance properly is never going to pay interest at credit card rates. So if they did charge everyone interest from the purchase date, then full payers would close their cards and use debit cards instead.

But they want full payers, hence the specific interest exemption for them. 

As with any business they'll have loss leaders, for instance 0% offers, but they're always temporary time-limited offers which require action by the customer to avoid big fees/interest at the end. Paying a card in full every month requires zero action after setting up a DD to pay in full, and can last decades. They're not going to have ongoing permanent loss leaders for half their customer base. 

The interchange rate for UK personal credit cards used in the UK is capped at 0.3%. That's the total amount which goes to Visa or Mastercard, and they will likely pay some of that (but not all of it, otherwise they'd make nothing!) to your issuer in commission. Think about the costs of providing an account to you - as one example, it costs a fiver for them to issue a card and have it sent to you; assuming Barclaycard get all the interchange revenue (and they wont!) it'd take £1667 of UK spend to cover its cost. Every bit of paper you receive in the post will have cost them at least a quid now too. This is before you try and figure out the cost of providing a working service and fulfilling their obligations (incl S275).

The interchange fee is only a small part of the fee paid by merchants. See UK Card Processing Fees | Don't Get Ripped Off (merchantsavvy.co.uk) 

Irrelevant, as the only part which works its way back to the issuer is derived from the interchange fee. The rest is retained by the acquiring bank, and used to cover their costs and provide them with a profit margin.

zagfles

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

The best way to screw a credit card company IS to spend heavily on it and pay the balance in full by the due date. So, at least you have the warm reassurance that you've already been doing it for years. 

Start being a bit sloppy with paying in full, a bit of interest or fees here and there, etc and the offers will come flooding at you.

How do you think that "screws" them? Credit card companies still make loads of money through the fees they charge retailers so they're quite happy with full payers, that's why they offer the specific interest free exemption for paying in full. Plus even cashback with some cards. IIRC something like 60% of people pay in full every month.  

1) Because it costs them to provide the infrastructure/service/etc of providing a credit card.
2) Because they're offering a credit line for free

Sure, they make money through retailers fees etc but its a competitive, marginal, industry. They won't make any money from full-payers. Its all relative.

Of course they make money from full payers. Over half CC users are full payers, why would they want such customers if they didn't make money from them? And even give them cashback on top with some cards. If they didn't want them or weren't making money from them they'd simply charge interest from the purchase date to the payment date with no exemption for full payers. 

They like full payers, because they're a reliable rock solid income stream. Obviously they'd prefer it if you pay them interest as well, but they know that anyone who manages their finance properly is never going to pay interest at credit card rates. So if they did charge everyone interest from the purchase date, then full payers would close their cards and use debit cards instead.

But they want full payers, hence the specific interest exemption for them. 

As with any business they'll have loss leaders, for instance 0% offers, but they're always temporary time-limited offers which require action by the customer to avoid big fees/interest at the end. Paying a card in full every month requires zero action after setting up a DD to pay in full, and can last decades. They're not going to have ongoing permanent loss leaders for half their customer base. 

The interchange rate for UK personal credit cards used in the UK is capped at 0.3%. That's the total amount which goes to Visa or Mastercard, and they will likely pay some of that (but not all of it, otherwise they'd make nothing!) to your issuer in commission. Think about the costs of providing an account to you - as one example, it costs a fiver for them to issue a card and have it sent to you; assuming Barclaycard get all the interchange revenue (and they wont!) it'd take £1667 of UK spend to cover its cost. Every bit of paper you receive in the post will have cost them at least a quid now too. This is before you try and figure out the cost of providing a working service and fulfilling their obligations (incl S275).

The interchange fee is only a small part of the fee paid by merchants. See UK Card Processing Fees | Don't Get Ripped Off (merchantsavvy.co.uk) 

Irrelevant, as the only part which works its way back to the issuer is derived from the interchange fee. The rest is retained by the acquiring bank, and used to cover their costs and provide them with a profit margin.

And guess who one of the biggest acquiring banks is? 26 UK Payment Processing Companies & Merchant Accounts (2024) (merchantsavvy.co.uk)

I don't think they'll be bothered whether they make money through being the card issuer or providing merchant services. So while they may only get 0.3% directly as an issuer, they'll get somewhere between 0.95% and 2.75% as merchant acquirer. As an acquirer they of course get their fees whatever bank's card is used, but I suspect there's a reasonable balance between issuers and merchant acquirers and that the bigger acquirers offer the best long term deals on cards (such as the BC rewards card, cashback and no forex fees) to try to maintain that balance. 

Plus who takes the hit for stuff like S75 claims etc? From what it says in that link about BC being very fussy about who it provides merchant services to, I would think it's the acquiring bank which takes the hit where the merchant has gone bust etc. Also what about timing of payments? Does the issuing bank pay the acquiring bank straight away or is it all totted up a month or two later? So who is effectively paying for the interest free period? 

WillPS

zagfles said:

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

WillPS said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

zagfles said:

paul_c123 said:

The best way to screw a credit card company IS to spend heavily on it and pay the balance in full by the due date. So, at least you have the warm reassurance that you've already been doing it for years. 

Start being a bit sloppy with paying in full, a bit of interest or fees here and there, etc and the offers will come flooding at you.

How do you think that "screws" them? Credit card companies still make loads of money through the fees they charge retailers so they're quite happy with full payers, that's why they offer the specific interest free exemption for paying in full. Plus even cashback with some cards. IIRC something like 60% of people pay in full every month.  

1) Because it costs them to provide the infrastructure/service/etc of providing a credit card.
2) Because they're offering a credit line for free

Sure, they make money through retailers fees etc but its a competitive, marginal, industry. They won't make any money from full-payers. Its all relative.

Of course they make money from full payers. Over half CC users are full payers, why would they want such customers if they didn't make money from them? And even give them cashback on top with some cards. If they didn't want them or weren't making money from them they'd simply charge interest from the purchase date to the payment date with no exemption for full payers. 

They like full payers, because they're a reliable rock solid income stream. Obviously they'd prefer it if you pay them interest as well, but they know that anyone who manages their finance properly is never going to pay interest at credit card rates. So if they did charge everyone interest from the purchase date, then full payers would close their cards and use debit cards instead.

But they want full payers, hence the specific interest exemption for them. 

As with any business they'll have loss leaders, for instance 0% offers, but they're always temporary time-limited offers which require action by the customer to avoid big fees/interest at the end. Paying a card in full every month requires zero action after setting up a DD to pay in full, and can last decades. They're not going to have ongoing permanent loss leaders for half their customer base. 

The interchange rate for UK personal credit cards used in the UK is capped at 0.3%. That's the total amount which goes to Visa or Mastercard, and they will likely pay some of that (but not all of it, otherwise they'd make nothing!) to your issuer in commission. Think about the costs of providing an account to you - as one example, it costs a fiver for them to issue a card and have it sent to you; assuming Barclaycard get all the interchange revenue (and they wont!) it'd take £1667 of UK spend to cover its cost. Every bit of paper you receive in the post will have cost them at least a quid now too. This is before you try and figure out the cost of providing a working service and fulfilling their obligations (incl S275).

The interchange fee is only a small part of the fee paid by merchants. See UK Card Processing Fees | Don't Get Ripped Off (merchantsavvy.co.uk) 

Irrelevant, as the only part which works its way back to the issuer is derived from the interchange fee. The rest is retained by the acquiring bank, and used to cover their costs and provide them with a profit margin.

And guess who one of the biggest acquiring banks is? 26 UK Payment Processing Companies & Merchant Accounts (2024) (merchantsavvy.co.uk)

I don't think they'll be bothered whether they make money through being the card issuer or providing merchant services. So while they may only get 0.3% directly as an issuer, they'll get somewhere between 0.95% and 2.75% as merchant acquirer. As an acquirer they of course get their fees whatever bank's card is used, but I suspect there's a reasonable balance between issuers and merchant acquirers and that the bigger acquirers offer the best long term deals on cards (such as the BC rewards card, cashback and no forex fees) to try to maintain that balance. 

Plus who takes the hit for stuff like S75 claims etc? From what it says in that link about BC being very fussy about who it provides merchant services to, I would think it's the acquiring bank which takes the hit where the merchant has gone bust etc. Also what about timing of payments? Does the issuing bank pay the acquiring bank straight away or is it all totted up a month or two later? So who is effectively paying for the interest free period? 

S75 is settled by the issuer, who will normally try to obtain whatever they can from chargeback - the acquiring bank will pass this straight on the merchant, and will take the hit if not. The remnants (consequential losses etc) will come out of the issuer's own pocket, and so must be considered part of the cost of doing business.

Barclaycard's acquiring bank services aren't relevant when calculating individual personal customer profitability, as it is money they'd be collecting/earning on any card spend. Indeed, Barclaycard could spin off or close down the consumer credit card division alltogether (not saying they will, but they could) and each side would have similar profitability to that it does today - see also RBS/WorldPay.

Barclaycard aren't putting credit cards out there to make money from their other division's merchant fees; it's two separate bites of a giant pie.