Income tax arising until date of death

Famau

I am more-or-less finished with the probate and estate distribution process following my mother's death just over 2 months ago - very speedy on the whole and pleased with HMCTS and the banks' responses.

I received a letter from HMRC (P1001) saying that they would be in touch within 8 weeks if tax was either due or overpaid for the period up to her death.  Realistically, this would refer to 2023-24 because the full year allowance for 24-25 would dwarf any income during the month in which she died (April).

I have not received any communication from HMRC and the 8 week period has passed.  I suspect that there may be taxable income which exceeds their £500 waive-it threshhold, but I am not certain and I don't have all the old bank documents to establish the figures -  which should all be accessible to HMRC anyway as all her interest was from UK bank accounts. I don't want to distribute that part of the estate that I have held back to cover a tax provision until I know, but as HMRC don't write to say there is nothing to pay it leaves things in limbo.

So my question:  does anyone know if HMRC always meet their 8 week timescale?  Could I ring them and ask for a position?  Any why wouldn't they simply write with the tax position regardless of outcome so that there is clarity?

OldMusicGuy

We have recently been in a similar position and it took about 12 weeks from reporting the death for notice of a tax refund to come through from HMRC. I can't find the P1001 to say how long it was after we received that.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Aren't you mixing up pre and post death liabilities?

Isn't it your responsibility to notify the post death income?

Isn't the P1001 about the period to the date of death, not after it?

Famau

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Aren't you mixing up pre and post death liabilities?

Isn't it your responsibility to notify the post death income?

Isn't the P1001 about the period to the date of death, not after it?

Yes, my post was about pre-death income.  That's my main question - whether HMRC are tardy in meeting their "within 8 weeks of P1001 letter" deadline, and why they don't simply write to everyone to provide clarity of the tax position.  Estate income (post-death) is simpler as I already now have the closing a/c balances and can simply subtract balances at date of death from these closing balances.  I will write to HMRC with that info, but would prefer to get the pre-death tax position clear first...

sheramber

Famau said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Aren't you mixing up pre and post death liabilities?

Isn't it your responsibility to notify the post death income?

Isn't the P1001 about the period to the date of death, not after it?

Yes, my post was about pre-death income.  That's my main question - whether HMRC are tardy in meeting their "within 8 weeks of P1001 letter" deadline, and why they don't simply write to everyone to provide clarity of the tax position.  Estate income (post-death) is simpler as I already now have the closing a/c balances and can simply subtract balances at date of death from these closing balances.  I will write to HMRC with that info, but would prefer to get the pre-death tax position clear first...

and why they don't simply write to everyone to provide clarity of the tax position. 

Lack of staff,time and money.

Bobziz

I'm in a similar position and phoned on Monday having waited 9 weeks. I was advised that they are still waiting to receive details of interest paid from the bank, but as I have the details I should write in which I have done.

Famau

Bobziz said:

I'm in a similar position and phoned on Monday having waited 9 weeks. I was advised that they are still waiting to receive details of interest paid from the bank, but as I have the details I should write in which I have done.

Thanks - that's helpful.  Not sure why it would take HMRC much time given that everything is pretty much automated these days but perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.  I'm reluctant to suggest figures to them - I  don't have all the information and am concerned that I might overstate interest and hence tax due.  I assume everything should end up being reconciled, but I'd rather hang on for HMRC to tell me what it wants...  I guess I'll just hang fire for now. 

Shedman

Did your mother have any non state pensions (i.e. occupational or personal pensions) for which there was an amount paid for the period between end of last tax year and her death.  If so, that also might be causing a delay in HMRC working out the pre death tax position.  When I rang HMRC to find out the situation re my MiL's pre death tax the agent I spoke to said that they couldn't produce the final statement until they had had the P45's from the pension providers and that the pension providers weren't particularly quick in providing them.  

I haven't even had a P1001 yet, but there was a bit of confusion when I spoke to them as apparently they had both me (who was the only one named as acting as PR on the Tell Us Once service) plus another person as having authority to act on her account and who, despite me naming all the possible candidates and being told none of those was right, couldn't be determined as they wouldn't tell me for GDP reasons.  So I've had to send in a covering letter seeking removal of this unknown person along with the grant of probate to evidence that I am the Executor.  I have had the grant back today so hopefully things are now progressing.

Famau

Shedman said:

Did your mother have any non state pensions (i.e. occupational or personal pensions) for which there was an amount paid for the period between end of last tax year and her death.  If so, that also might be causing a delay in HMRC working out the pre death tax position.  When I rang HMRC to find out the situation re my MiL's pre death tax the agent I spoke to said that they couldn't produce the final statement until they had had the P45's from the pension providers and that the pension providers weren't particularly quick in providing them.  

I haven't even had a P1001 yet, but there was a bit of confusion when I spoke to them as apparently they had both me (who was the only one named as acting as PR on the Tell Us Once service) plus another person as having authority to act on her account and who, despite me naming all the possible candidates and being told none of those was right, couldn't be determined as they wouldn't tell me for GDP reasons.  So I've had to send in a covering letter seeking removal of this unknown person along with the grant of probate to evidence that I am the Executor.  I have had the grant back today so hopefully things are now progressing.

Ah well yes, there was a very modest NHS pension with a payment made in April.  Not too worried about that as her full year allowance for 24-25 would cover that.  I guess HMRC will send a tax statement that covers 23-24 and also April - so you may be right and that's the reason for the delay.  As I mentioned earlier, I will wait for HMRC to contact me regarding income and tax pre-death.  But I have this morning drafted a letter regarding estate income and tax post-death as I think that is pretty clear (income = sum of a/c balances on closure minus a/c balances at date of death).  I am probably being too impatient really, but just want to get everything put to bed .

Hopefully you'll get your HMRC correspondence now they know who to deal with. 

Famau

Well ten weeks have now elapsed since HMRC issued a P1001 notice saying they would write to me within 8 weeks regarding income tax until date of death.  Nothing heard.  Tried webchat but it was less than helpful - kept bouncing me around to irrelevant answers.  I guess I could ring but I think I'll hold on until 12 weeks and hope to hear from them so that I can put this all to bed.  Although I could suggest some figures, I'm not sure about things like pension income & tax paid which HMRC should of course have to hand, as well as the accurate interest generated figures.

I've writted re estate income after death with a breakdown of fugures - surprisingly haven't heard back from HMRC on that either.  You;d have thought the country didn't want to bring in income !