PCN Smart Parking - what to do?

Chieflasagnaeater

Hello all, I'm new here and thought I would ask your advice, so hoping you can help!

Received a PCN from Smart Parking for parking at Dreamland car park in Kent.
1st appeal was rejected. In my appeal I did refer to 'my wife & I' and 'we' did this and that, etc. Reading the FAQ's I now know this is a no no but oh well it's too late. I didn't actually divulge if it was me or her that was the driver....if this is still of any benefit. 
Story is we were 11mins over time. Paid for 180mins and stay measured at 191mins. This is measured by the ANPR which registers entry and exit.
However, we took some time to find the right parking spot, get our kids organised and join a short queue to pay for 2 hours at the P&D machine. We of course measured the time from this point and not the ANPR entry hence the PCN.
Like many others who parked at Dreamland (google reviews), we parked in good faith, paid for the time we needed and returned to our car in good time, or so we thought! 

Unfortunately we don't live locally so are unable to check the signage, but I assume it is stated that time is from point of ANPR entry to exit. I make this assumption having read another users account on this site at a different Smart Parking site where they posted a picture of that signage and it was clearly stated.

Now I am a cross road, do we pay the £100, because technically, it was our fault for not reading the signage and assuming the clock started ticking from P&D machine. Or should I continue to appeal?  My argument is the ambiguity of ANPR and P&D have different time stamps, and not having ever some across this ridiculous method of having 2 systems, ANPR and P&D which are not interlinked.

Thanks for any help you can offer. 

 

Gr1pr

Read the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

Definitely try plan A first, trying to get the landowner to cancel the PCN ASAP 

Do you have a 10 digit Popla code from Smart. ?

Is the NTK PCN letter compliant with POFA or not. ?

Examples are listed in a link in the newbies sticky thread 

The driver was allowed a minimum of 10 minutes grace period to leave the car park, so 11 minutes is trivial 

Coupon-mad

Why didn't you just appeal as registered keeper - not talking about the story of what happened -  and win the appeal easily, as the NEWBIES thread explains?

A very very easy one to win. Nobody pays a Smart Parking PCN here. Please say you DIDN'T admit to driving/parking when you appealed?

Even if you did (I hope not?) this is a cinch to win at POPLA as per @Grizebeck's approach as seen in lots of other Smart Parking threads.  

Chieflasagnaeater

Gr1pr said:

Read the newbies sticky thread in announcements 

Definitely try plan A first, trying to get the landowner to cancel the PCN ASAP 

Do you have a 10 digit Popla code from Smart. ?

Is the NTK PCN letter compliant with POFA or not. ?

Examples are listed in a link in the newbies sticky thread 

The driver was allowed a minimum of 10 minutes grace period to leave the car park, so 11 minutes is trivial 

We have just drafted letters to the land owner, Dreamland customer services and Thanet Council.

Yes we received a Popla verification code from Smart.  The PCN states contravention date was 5/2/20204 and date of issue as 20/2/2024, so 15 days, and we received the PCN a few days later. Still trying to understand if it's compliant or not. Can you please advise?

Thanks!   

Chieflasagnaeater

Coupon-mad said:

Why didn't you just appeal as registered keeper - not talking about the story of what happened -  and win the appeal easily, as the NEWBIES thread explains?

A very very easy one to win. Nobody pays a Smart Parking PCN here. Please say you DIDN'T admit to driving/parking when you appealed?

Even if you did (I hope not?) this is a cinch to win at POPLA as per @Grizebeck's approach as seen in lots of other Smart Parking threads.  

We appealed without the foresight of this forum, so referred to 'my wife & I' but have not divulged who the driver was.
In the appeal 'story' we did discuss parking in one location then moving the car to another.

So my question is what is the right strategy for our appeal to Popla?  (will of course still wait for Coupon-mad's reply re POFA compliance - which is still a bit fuzzy as to what this means)

Thanks.

Grizebeck

Do the following appeal to popla
Nothing else at all
"Smart parking does not have a contract at this site to issue pcns at the site"
That's it. !

Gr1pr

I have no idea why the OP involved the council. ?

The NTK PCN letter is unlikely to comply with POFA and also must be issued in order to arrive on day 15, not issued, so definitely failed on timescales alone 

Chieflasagnaeater

Grizebeck said:

Do the following appeal to popla
Nothing else at all
"Smart parking does not have a contract at this site to issue pcns at the site"
That's it. !

This sounds wonderfully simple - thank you!

Can I ask how you know they don't have a contract?

Chieflasagnaeater

Gr1pr said:

I have no idea why the OP involved the council. ?

The NTK PCN letter is unlikely to comply with POFA and also must be issued in order to arrive on day 15, not issued, so definitely failed on timescales alone 

We thought the council should be aware there are many cases exactly like ours, based on google reviews at that specific site, which will be negatively impacting people visiting their town. 
Have not sent the letter yet.

Coupon-mad

Chieflasagnaeater said:

Grizebeck said:

Do the following appeal to popla
Nothing else at all
"Smart parking does not have a contract at this site to issue pcns at the site"
That's it. !

This sounds wonderfully simple - thank you!

Can I ask how you know they don't have a contract?

Because he does these all the time and like me, has been fighting these for over a decade.

Obviously it's non-POFA because Smart don't use that law, ever.  No need to check. We know it is. No need to explain more because the NEWBIES thread first post covers all this.

Personally I'd use the above words by @Grizebeck plus:

And by the way, dear POPLA Assessor, it's Smart Parking and we all know by now - surely POPLA hasn't missed this fact - that they never use POFA wording and can't hold me liable as keeper.  PCN not properly given. Game over.

LDast

Chieflasagnaeater said:

Story is we were 11mins over time. Paid for 180mins and stay measured at 191mins.

However, we took some time to find the right parking spot, get our kids organised and join a short queue to pay for 2 hours at the P&D machine.

Maybe this is why the OP received an NtK from (not so) Smart who probably don't have a valid contract with the landowner to issue them anyway.