HMO Licensing changes causing us to lose our Flat

chipgirl100

Hi everyone, I currently live in Lambeth in an additional licensed flat with 3 other people. We are all separate households and 4 of us have lived here for at least 7 years now. We found out the other week that the council had only set the license for 3 households, presumably deeming the 7.5 square metre 'box room' too small.

This change hasn't made our rent any cheaper and we would no longer be able to afford the flat just the 3 of us (one of us was looking to leave anyway). The chances of us finding another place within budget is small as I don't work due to chronic pain and fatigue, and another one of us gets their income topped up by universal credit, with the final flatmate having a poor credit score.
 
We've appealed to the council to change the decision as a flat in our building in the same location just a few floors higher is deemed big enough for 4 households. We also do a reduced rent for that small room anyway as we realise its a single room compared to our doubles. 
I'm just coming on here to see if anyone could help point us in other directions then the council or any advice really. 

Thanks for reading and hope anyone can help us  

BonaDea

Of course if two of you were to get together and become a couple, that would reduce the number of households to three anyway.  Just a thought ....

anselld

It seems odd because the national prescribed space standards state 6.51 sqm as the minimum for a single room.  What was the outcome of the appeal and have you seen it in writing or are you getting the story from the Landlord/Agent?

ThisIsWeird

Hi Chipgirl.
What is your landlord/Freeholder saying?
Are you sure that the small bedroom's size is the cause of this change?
A friend rented out his 4-bed house in Kennington (oops - originally put Kensington!) for over a decade, and became aware - Ie, the LA did not inform - of a change to the regs around a year ago, where the number of tenants that deemed a property a 'HMO' fell from 5 to 4, and his ward was the first to introduce this change. Result? For a few months he was inadvertently running a HMO and in breach of the new regs... Solution? The LL applies to certify the HMO status, at undoubtedly some additional cost, but it doesn't change the fact that 4 tenants in a 4-bed house is ok.
So, are you sure it ain't just a 'HMO' regulation change that the LL needs to register to be allowed to continue?
Your LL presumably wishes to keep on with 4 tenants for the additional income?

And have you measured that room accurately to see how it compares with anselld's figure?

chipgirl100

BonaDea said:

Of course if two of you were to get together and become a couple, that would reduce the number of households to three anyway.  Just a thought ....

sadly none of us like each other that way and I feel they would take a bed from us and would report if we got a new one.... not sure on the exact rules of that particular detail 

chipgirl100

anselld said:

It seems odd because the national prescribed space standards state 6.51 sqm as the minimum for a single room.  What was the outcome of the appeal and have you seen it in writing or are you getting the story from the Landlord/Agent?

yeah we've discovered council are allowed to apparently set their own standards for how big a single room should be and for lambeth it is now 9 square metres. 

chipgirl100

ThisIsWeird said:

Hi Chipgirl.
What is your landlord/Freeholder saying?
Are you sure that the small bedroom's size is the cause of this change?
A friend rented out his 4-bed house in Kennington (oops - originally put Kensington!) for over a decade, and became aware - Ie, the LA did not inform - of a change to the regs around a year ago, where the number of tenants that deemed a property a 'HMO' fell from 5 to 4, and his ward was the first to introduce this change. Result? For a few months he was inadvertently running a HMO and in breach of the new regs... Solution? The LL applies to certify the HMO status, at undoubtedly some additional cost, but it doesn't change the fact that 4 tenants in a 4-bed house is ok.
So, are you sure it ain't just a 'HMO' regulation change that the LL needs to register to be allowed to continue?
Your LL presumably wishes to keep on with 4 tenants for the additional income?

And have you measured that room accurately to see how it compares with anselld's figure?

we plan to call the council on Thursday as I imagine the emails and messages we've sent won't be looked at for quite some time and then I guess they can tell us for definite whats happened. But the estate agent told us that the council had emailed the landlord saying only 3 households can now live here due to the size of the rooms and it would be happening to the other houses in the block. 

I can see on lambeths public register that this property does have a license for only 3 households, but up to 4 people in general, it's also how I saw that the other flat in the building in the same position with presumably the same layout is allowed 4 households.  

we measured it as best as we can with a terrible tape measure but we did underestimate with our 7.5 square metre reading we got at the end because we knew at least it was over what the government legal requirements for renting a room were. 

The landlord loves us as the previous tennats trashed the place and we've never given him any bother so I think he fears losing us. But I think the estate agent plans to market this place for higher then we are currently planning to pay if we move out, our new agreed rent was 2,500 and that was with us haggling. 

ThisIsWeird

That's really unfortunate, Chipgirl, and sooo short-sighted and counterproductive.

Fingers crossed there is a wee opening for common sense in the LA. Has your LL tried too?

Herzlos

chipgirl100 said:

This change hasn't made our rent any cheaper and we would no longer be able to afford the flat just the 3 of us (one of us was looking to leave anyway).

I'm confused by this part. I thought with an HMO you all had separate rent agreements with the landlord, so dropping a tenant shouldn't put your bills up.

Is there anything stopping you renting a 3 bed between you elsewhere?

_Penny_Dreadful

Herzlos said:

chipgirl100 said:

This change hasn't made our rent any cheaper and we would no longer be able to afford the flat just the 3 of us (one of us was looking to leave anyway).

I'm confused by this part. I thought with an HMO you all had separate rent agreements with the landlord, so dropping a tenant shouldn't put your bills up.

Is there anything stopping you renting a 3 bed between you elsewhere?

It can still be a HMO with a joint tenancy. 

propertyrental

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Herzlos said:

chipgirl100 said:

This change hasn't made our rent any cheaper and we would no longer be able to afford the flat just the 3 of us (one of us was looking to leave anyway).

I'm confused by this part. I thought with an HMO you all had separate rent agreements with the landlord, so dropping a tenant shouldn't put your bills up.

Is there anything stopping you renting a 3 bed between you elsewhere?

It can still be a HMO with a joint tenancy. 

Which begs the question: do you each have your own separate tenancy agreement, with the rent for your room, or are you all named on a single joint tenancy with the rent for the house?

I saw that the other flat in the building in the same position with presumably the same layout is allowed 4 households.  

Have you actually checked the layout of the other flat?