Strange court letter/summons

smudge_72

No idea if this is the right place to post. Do move if you think it should be else where

 

A friend of mine rang me in a state of panic on Friday (5/07/24), saying they have been sent a letter from HMRC Courts & tribunals debt collection services for a debt. The company named on the covering page is known to my friend - There is a long back story to all of this that I don't want to go in to it at this moment, as all I want to do is verify that this summons is legitimate. My friend also said there has been no previous contact claiming a debt is due, which is what I would have expected before we got to court stage.

 

The things I find a bit strange about the letter and summons are;

 

1) The summons and covering letter arrived in plain white c5 envelope with no return address and had a 1st class stamp on it as if it had just been popped in a post box. Its not franked as if its being bulk mailed or marked in any way that it had come from the courts. I would have assumed with all government departments that a return address would have been printed on the back of the envelope. 

3) The date on the letter is the 1st of July and the Royal Mail franking says 3rd of July. I would have thought it would have been posted the same day if from the courts.

4) The letter says we have 7 days to respond to this letter which I assume means from the date of the letter, which would be impossible as it arrived on Friday the 5th and the 7th is Sunday - hardly any time to sort things out!

2) The part of the covering letter that says HMRC courts & tribunal services is fuzzy like its badly copied and small. I would have thought it would clear and crisp and bigger, like the summons letter header.

3) When I search online the 0800 telephone number on the letter, I don't get any results back. This seems strange to me as it’s supposed to be for the HMRC courts & tribunal debt collection services, a government agency.  It seems that HMRC have mainly 0300 numbers. I phoned the 0800 number & it just rings and rings.  I would expect a government agency number to have a automatic message saying what department and that they are closed for the weekend.

4) A witness summons in the high court has been included, but when I search for the judge’s name that issued it, nothing comes up for that that person at all.  Or indeed, that name at all anywhere!

5) On the witness statement the claimant is a different company to the one named in the covering letter, which I thought would be a legal firm. After searching the company name, that does not seem to be the case.

6) It also mentions the civil money claims service in one paragraph, saying that it is run by "her majesty courts and tribunal service (HMCTS)" (Not updated to his majesty etc). I am confused about where it says elsewhere that the claim has been finalised and enforced by the HMRC debt collections administrator.  Surely its one or the other, not both? Why HMRC at all?

7) All the codes on the letter and summons I have tried in the civil money claims service are not recognised as such.

 Maybe I am too suspicious, but it all seems a bit off to me. If there is a debt to be paid that's fine, it will be paid but neither me nor my friend have ever received a letter like this before. Before we do something silly and pay out money, we want to be able to verify that it's legitimate.

powerful_Rogue

smudge_72 said:

No idea if this is the right place to post. Do move if you think it should be else where

 

A friend of mine rang me in a state of panic on Friday (5/07/24), saying they have been sent a letter from HMRC Courts & tribunals debt collection services for a debt. The company named on the covering page is known to my friend - There is a long back story to all of this that I don't want to go in to it at this moment, as all I want to do is verify that this summons is legitimate. My friend also said there has been no previous contact claiming a debt is due, which is what I would have expected before we got to court stage.

 

The things I find a bit strange about the letter and summons are;

 

1) The summons and covering letter arrived in plain white c5 envelope with no return address and had a 1st class stamp on it as if it had just been popped in a post box. Its not franked as if its being bulk mailed or marked in any way that it had come from the courts. I would have assumed with all government departments that a return address would have been printed on the back of the envelope. 

3) The date on the letter is the 1st of July and the Royal Mail franking says 3rd of July. I would have thought it would have been posted the same day if from the courts.

4) The letter says we have 7 days to respond to this letter which I assume means from the date of the letter, which would be impossible as it arrived on Friday the 5th and the 7th is Sunday - hardly any time to sort things out!

2) The part of the covering letter that says HMRC courts & tribunal services is fuzzy like its badly copied and small. I would have thought it would clear and crisp and bigger, like the summons letter header.

3) When I search online the 0800 telephone number on the letter, I don't get any results back. This seems strange to me as it’s supposed to be for the HMRC courts & tribunal debt collection services, a government agency.  It seems that HMRC have mainly 0300 numbers. I phoned the 0800 number & it just rings and rings.  I would expect a government agency number to have a automatic message saying what department and that they are closed for the weekend.

4) A witness summons in the high court has been included, but when I search for the judge’s name that issued it, nothing comes up for that that person at all.  Or indeed, that name at all anywhere!

5) On the witness statement the claimant is a different company to the one named in the covering letter, which I thought would be a legal firm. After searching the company name, that does not seem to be the case.

6) It also mentions the civil money claims service in one paragraph, saying that it is run by "her majesty courts and tribunal service (HMCTS)" (Not updated to his majesty etc). I am confused about where it says elsewhere that the claim has been finalised and enforced by the HMRC debt collections administrator.  Surely its one or the other, not both? Why HMRC at all?

7) All the codes on the letter and summons I have tried in the civil money claims service are not recognised as such.

 Maybe I am too suspicious, but it all seems a bit off to me. If there is a debt to be paid that's fine, it will be paid but neither me nor my friend have ever received a letter like this before. Before we do something silly and pay out money, we want to be able to verify that it's legitimate.

Quickest, easiest and simplest will be to use this to find the court and phone them.

https://www.gov.uk/find-court-tribunal

user1977

I think you're expecting too much if you really think everyone gets their mail into the post same day it's printed, that they've updated all references to "her majesty", or you think they have any sort of phone-answering facility on the weekends. Also I now realise you probably mean "HM Courts etc" and that "HMRC" have nothing to do with this, correct?

What does the letter actually ask the recipient to do? Not sure what a scam would be if they're not e.g. asking for money.

Money_Grabber13579

user1977 said:

I think you're expecting too much if you really think everyone gets their mail into the post same day it's printed, that they've updated all references to "her majesty", or you think they have any sort of phone-answering facility on the weekends. Also I now realise you probably mean "HM Courts etc" and that "HMRC" have nothing to do with this, correct?

What does the letter actually ask the recipient to do? Not sure what a scam would be if they're not e.g. asking for money.

The “scam” could be an attempt by the company to get the debt paid, without actually ever having gone through any of the due process e.g. court proceedings etc. I’m assuming that there is a valid reason as to why the company hasn’t been paid already.

GrubbyGirl_2

user1977 said:

I think you're expecting too much if you really think everyone gets their mail into the post same day it's printed, that they've updated all references to "her majesty", or you think they have any sort of phone-answering facility on the weekends. Also I now realise you probably mean "HM Courts etc" and that "HMRC" have nothing to do with this, correct?

What does the letter actually ask the recipient to do? Not sure what a scam would be if they're not e.g. asking for money.

It asks for them to contact on a number that isn't recognised.  If a scam they are reeling them in and at some point they will be asking for money.  The fact they only give 7 days is already raising anxiety in the recipient and I bet there will be something like "if you don't pay immediately it will go from £X to £Y.

It has the feel of a scam so as others have suggested contact the court directly

Bluemoon1965

Hi, how did that end because I have exactly the same issue. I've been sent a witness summons to Royal Courts of Justice but as the defendant which is just odd. I'm the defendant and witness?

user1977

Bluemoon1965 said:

Hi, how did that end because I have exactly the same issue. I've been sent a witness summons to Royal Courts of Justice but as the defendant which is just odd. I'm the defendant and witness?

What exactly does it say? Does it relate an (alleged) debt you know about?

Bluemoon1965

No, they say that the company I bought from has gone into insolvency and they are processing monies owed to me but to claim the money I must buy a registration code which is £1250, obviously they want this upfront and obviously I would never do that so they claim I owe this money to HMRC, which is ridiculous. 
So I appreciate I can see it's a scam but just wanted to know when the court date came and went, did you hear anything further because when I emailed the Royal Courts of Justice they mentioned that I should attend if I had a summons but there was also some scams going about with HMRC.

user1977

If it's a scam then there is no actual court date, so nothing would have happened. If the OP failed to respond then I expect the scammers just wait to hear from a more gullible recipient.

Ergates

Bluemoon1965 said:

No, they say that the company I bought from has gone into insolvency and they are processing monies owed to me but to claim the money I must buy a registration code which is £1250, obviously they want this upfront and obviously I would never do that so they claim I owe this money to HMRC, which is ridiculous. 
So I appreciate I can see it's a scam but just wanted to know when the court date came and went, did you hear anything further because when I emailed the Royal Courts of Justice they mentioned that I should attend if I had a summons but there was also some scams going about with HMRC.

Does the company in question owe you money?

ciderboy2009

Bluemoon1965 said:

No, they say that the company I bought from has gone into insolvency and they are processing monies owed to me but to claim the money I must buy a registration code which is £1250, obviously they want this upfront and obviously I would never do that so they claim I owe this money to HMRC, which is ridiculous. 
So I appreciate I can see it's a scam but just wanted to know when the court date came and went, did you hear anything further because when I emailed the Royal Courts of Justice they mentioned that I should attend if I had a summons but there was also some scams going about with HMRC.

That is 100% a scam.  The RCJ (or County Courts) just don't operate in that way!